Talk:Death of Chavis Carter

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Contested deletion[edit]

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because it has appeared on online news sources and television. It's extremely ignorant to say that this is irrelevant because it appeared as a news item and is important enough for a single page on Wikipedia. Furthermore, this does not violate any rules on Wikipedia. While it is lacking in content, I believe this article can be expanded on and improved while the story develops. And it certainly will develop. In a nutshell, this article is important enough to exist and I want a very good reason for otherwise. Before you delete this article and completely ruin my work, at least consider this message. Thank you. --Valadar917 (talk) 19:09, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Valadar, I am not sure who said this is irrelevant, since any murder isn't irrelevant, but this has more to do with Wiki policies and notability of the subject and the event. --Mollskman (talk) 19:24, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with Valadar that this subject has recieved sufficient attention to not be speedily deleted. However, it may or may not pass WP:GNG for survival if someone wishes to press the issue. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The speedy deletion banner said specifically that this subject is too irrelevant for Wikipedia. I do understand there should be a page on the event rather than the person. I believe the rules say the subject matter (the death in this case) has to be relevant, not notable. Notability is just a plus, I think. Either way, we should probably get an article on the case itself.--Valadar917 (talk) 19:46, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Notability is mandatory, not a plus. If it is determined that this was done by the police, or there remain significant suspicion of that, notability will not be an issue. If it is determined that he somehow did shoot himself, then the article probably won't survive. In either case the article should be about the event, not the person, but that is a minor issue for now. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:57, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The actual wording of the speedy deletion notice was that the article "does not credibly indicate the importance or significance of the subject". So the statement was about the article (in its state at the time) not about the actual importance or significance of the person or event. The word "irrelevant" is not used. However, I realise that even that wording can be found harsh in the context of a recent tragic event.
Notability is a requirement, not just a plus. See WP:NOTABILITY.
The best article title would probably be "Death of Chavis Carter". Possibly we can get there by renaming, and slightly re-writing, this existing article.
There remains a possibility that an AfD of this article may be the best way forward. In any case, I would encourage editors to be cautious when editing this article, given the ongoing investigation and possible impact on the dead man's family (mentioned by the WP:BLP policy) and others. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:59, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Then I am 100% for renaming this article, especially if it saves it from outright deletion. I still believe the event is significant, especially with the FBI starting to investigate this case. I believe this news item might actually become pretty big. Even if not, it should get its own article.--Valadar917 (talk) 02:36, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Police Brutality[edit]

I was intending to add "Alleged Police Brutality" categeory to the article, which hotcat seems to let me do, but then it is automatically changed to police brutality for some reason. I agree that the "fact" category should not be added, but will look into why I can't add alleged. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:49, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. Thanks for helping me with my first article. --Valadar917 (talk) 19:59, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure that is fine. The redirect says that category shouldn't be populated. I chimmed in on the redirect talk page. --Mollskman (talk) 05:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I saw lots of dicussion for the creation of that category, and 0 discussion for its redirection. the "not populated" comment is part fo the redirection. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:54, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This was a police execution, plain and simple. This is why we can't trust the police. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.236.254.161 (talk) 17:49, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed Suicide[edit]

The media is reporting the autopsy determined the death was a suicide. It was on TV, I'm looking for a written source. --WingtipvorteX PTT ∅ 15:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.kait8.com/story/19149968/state-crime-lab-carter-committed-suicide-drugs-in-his-system-jpd-release-statement.html

Also mentions the re-enactment video showing how he could have shot himself. Gaijin42 (talk) 16:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. here is the CNN video. And here is the Crime Lab Report. Time to add the info to the article. --WingtipvorteX PTT ∅ 17:41, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And here is the CNN article. --WingtipvorteX PTT ∅ 18:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My major cleanup[edit]

I just went through and executed a major cleanup of the article. I added an image of Carter, the autopsy report results and some other information. Unfortunately, I did not have the time to read all of the sources in place, so using the CNN source for the autopsy, I added inline citations to all the statements the CNN source supported and {{cn}} to all those sentences needing an inline. I also added a lot of wikilinks. At least the article is a bit more acceptable now, but that is as far as I'll edit it. Cheers! --WingtipvorteX PTT ∅ 18:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

great job. This topic is likly to die out now unless some new controversy/informatino flares up, but I think yo ugot the article into a nice livable state for posterity. Gaijin42 (talk) 18:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there is some new controversy/informatino flares up, this does not appear to be anything more than a news item about a rather public suicide and would fail to have the required long term impact and coverage required for a stand alone article. -- The Red Pen of Doom 18:58, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. It appears there was too much use of crystal balls and too little adherence to WP:EVENT. I sourced the various statements with (bare) references and stripped the remaining references that were not properly formatted or linked to anything specific. Location (talk) 19:18, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Give it a couple of more weeks to see and then back to AfD? And thanks for the clean up!(even if it ends up being for naught) -- The Red Pen of Doom 19:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a reason that it needs to be deleted. I think it was notable, and that is not temporary. Its just not going to have a lot happening to it in the future. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:22, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I would suggest holding off an AfD until after the FBI finishes its investigations. Their investigation may have enduring consequences, such as new methods of detecting hidden firearms after police arrest someone. I understand that is a bit of crystal balling, so keep it aligned to WP:EVENT for now. --WingtipvorteX PTT ∅ 17:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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