Talk:Deaths in January 2021

Indonesian politicians

So, if they were not national MPs, what was the assembly they were part of? Has that assembly an article on Wiki? Is it a sort of regional council, which would make them not encyclopedic? Before readding what I undid, please explain, @Tensa Februari:. --Folengo (talk) 12:47, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

All of your questions are on the news sources. So if you want to delete their notability because such assemblies are not on English Wikipedia yet, I have no problem. But that was problem if you state that they are from national MP because those are wrong. Best regards. --Tensa Februari (talk) 12:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I was confused by user saying contrasting things. So they can be compared to regional councillors, no? Are they notable enough to have a page on Wiki? --Folengo (talk) 13:51, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

They are not regional councillors. There are 34 provinces of Indonesia. Each province has its own legislature. Indonesia is a democratic republic like the United States that has a similar structure. Federal > Province > Regencies (which would be similar to regional councillors or municipalities elsewhere) > Districts > Villages (Subdivisions of Indonesia). The problem is that Indonesia is not covered very extensively on English wikipedia but that is not to confuse them with not being notable.SunnyDoo, 14:27, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

In cases such as these, I would always go to the 30 day test. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Muspandi was a member of the provincial East Kalimantan DPRD and is listed on that page. He was also a member of the Paser DPRD, with Paser being a regency of East Kalimantan. Muhammad Arif was a member of the Tanjungpinang City DPRD with cities being administrated separately from regencies, but at an equivalent level. Emk9 (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Regencies are sub-provincial and hence not inherently notable (WP:NPOL). I have removed the Pasar mention from Muspandi, and nominatred Arif for deletion. WWGB (talk) 01:26, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Unnecessarily rapid switcheroo?

Quite tedious to find yesterday's deaths. Can't we wait a week before we do all those conversions and delete format one is accustomed to? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:55, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Yesterday was December 31, which can be found in either Deaths in December 2020 or at Deaths in 2020, which will redirect to 2020 at a list of annual deaths, wherein you will find the December 2020 deaths link. How hard is that? Wyliepedia @ 17:54, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Gee, thanks for telling me what date that was! (Wow!) I wrote "tedious" not "hard", and am not a nincompoop. I stand by "tedious". Let me add: unnecessary. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:25, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Not ganging up here, but regular visitors and editors to the Deaths pages understand the technicalities of the immediate New Year switchover. Look for consensus if you will, but the result would be more chaotic than your search was. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but it is not my opinion that we are here mainly to create material for "regular visitors and editors" but for any and all readers, and to make access to that material as facile as possible for all readers. I asked a simple question: Can't we wait a week? Perhaps someone who does not care only about "regular visitors and editors" might want to try to reply? If not: oh, well... Others need not bother here, in any case, with me and my silly outsider query. Happy New Year! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:18, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

One could argue that this article should be titled Recent Deaths, since we don't list the entire year. (The December 2020 deaths page still has around 900 listed there, due to affording redlinks their 30-day grace period.) We could leave December deaths up through the first week of January, if this was Recent Deaths, but then we would have to answer to those who don’t consider December "recent". Point being: we can't please everyone. As stated above, feel free to open a dialogue to gain a consensus for any changes/suggestions. Otherwise, the new status quo will be to continue as normal and hatnote every new year to December. Wyliepedia @ 05:52, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Barbara Shelley

COD needs to be temporarily removed. The inline citation at her article, and the article itself, state that she had recovered from COVID-19. If a person recovers from something, I think that makes it a bit difficult to then die from it. Thoughts about removing COVID-19 as any part of Shelley's COD ? 2600:8800:785:9400:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 17:01, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

COVID is not listed as a direct COD, but complications arising from it are. Broad term enough. --79.24.120.39 (talk) 18:02, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

How can there be "complications" when the person recovered? Let's try for accurate, not "broad." 2600:8800:785:9400:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 23:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 Removed COD for now. WWGB (talk) 23:49, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

And whomever said recovery cancels complications is completely wrong. The Florida basketball player who almost died on the court a few weeks ago "recovered" from COVID-19 last fall. However as was feared by doctors in the Big 10, inflammation of his heart caused by the virus continued and he went undiagnosed with myocarditis although he appeared healthy on the outside. This led him to go into cardiac arrest (an event) during the game and only quick medical help saved him.SunnyDoo, 03:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

• I think several editors here need to look up COVID "recovery" as currently defined. Assuming something means what you think it must mean based on the individual words used is sometimes called the Holy Roman Empire problem, or also "beware of terms of art". ELSchissel (talk) 16:51, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

In a nutshell, we should only be applying causes directly stated in our used sources, or at least causes contained in the person's own article if supported by a source. Guesswork and speculation have no place here. Ref ^(chew)(do) 18:03, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Brian Sicknick

He was 42, not 44: [1] [2]. And the CNN link provided doesn’t work either, and it should be this one: [3] MikaelaArsenault (talk) 19:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

He has been removed as failing notability in the same way that Ashli Babbitt did. And not by me, but I totally agree with the removal. Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:22, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

He got re-added again. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 23:27, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I think we have to live with that one for one month. Babbitt's article was tested at AfD and removed; Sicknick has never had an article tested and is a redirect (at least for now). WWGB (talk) 00:47, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Julie Strain

While her health is rapidly declining, I find it a coincidence that her death announcement this January comes on the anniversary of her erroneously reported death last year around this time, per a Google search of her name. I'm thinking the source used here could be a report from them not catching the 2020. Her enwiki was updated with her death this year, but not verified, and I removed all death news there as of now. Wyliepedia @ 12:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

The source that was used is not reliable? [4] MikaelaArsenault (talk) 13:38, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with this source, even if it is written in Polish. Many on Twitter have expressed condolences, no denial till now. Last year denial was pretty fast, and it was 14th January, not 10th. Genuine for me, only media are being overly cautious in light of previous death hoax. But stop adding the deadline article from last year, because it does not state she did not die now!--Folengo (talk) 15:54, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

The hoax was last year (2020). The Polish source is new, from January 2021, thus the death is credible and to be believed on this occasion until PROVEN otherwise. And whoever thinks hoaxing a single person is somehow an annual event needs to have a good think about their outlook. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:07, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not buying it, either. When it was reported that she died this time last year, it was erroneously picked up by multiple American-based entertainment outlets before her condition was clarified. It is very questionable that several hours have passed in this case, and the Polish mag is still the only source making this claim. Farolif (talk) 17:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

This is the original tweet and the account seems genuine. I'd be astonished if this was a hoax again. --Folengo (talk) 17:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I don’t get why the Deadline article kept getting added though. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 18:07, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I just removed it, unaware of this chat. I agree it's fishy. But won't press the issue. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:32, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Here is a new article: [5]. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

And here is Olivia De Berardinis. Is she a more credible collaborator on social media than Malibu Bay Films was last time? I don't know. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Am fairly certain Strain and ODB were friends, more than professionally, as the tweet mentions "Dave" (Strain's boyfriend) casually. If you look over Strain's now-busy Facebook page, you will see his updating her health over the past few years, both good and bad. Understandably, he has yet to post of her death. I don't believe this is a hoax, nor another Tanya Roberts debacle. I simply wish other agencies would pick up on it, although they might be gun-shy from last year's error and the said-Roberts thing. Or, it may be a lack of respect for Strain, sadly. Wyliepedia @ 21:21, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Dave's preoccupation and the news' apprehension sound plausible. But lack of respect, not so much. The AP mentions much more nefarious all the time, and TMZ far less famous. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Here are two more sources: [6], [7] MikaelaArsenault (talk) 23:15, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm still not seeing any convincing sources that are mainstream/reliable. Just lots of fringe or bloggy sites. WWGB (talk) 23:32, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay. I'm just trying to look for reliable sources, but I can’t find any. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 23:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

The joblo.com one (third above and #10) was used. The wearethepit.com (fourth above and #11) covers most social media reports and the Polish one. I personally think it's the best one, until we get a mainstream one, if ever. Wyliepedia @ 04:17, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

The Times mentions her death.--79.24.121.9 (talk) 11:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I can't believe I allowed cookies to read that, only to get the first paragraph then a subscription block. Wyliepedia @ 11:30, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Dementia

None of these blogs contain "complications of dementia" or another cause of death, so we shouldn't assume. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

The source linked now, from Heavy Metal magazine, reports "after a long battle with dementia". So did the Polish source. Fairy nuff. --Folengo (talk) 13:13, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Not "fairy nuff", original research. "After" is not "from" or any synonym. Admit it. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok, she was casually in hospice care with dementia when she died. Then remove any cause of death here. For example Sheldon Adelson was casually suffering from lymphoma when he died. It says "complications from a long illness", could be anything. Remove any CoD on this page. Also Stacy Title, source says "after a three-year battle with ALS" and that is not from ALS. Remove it. --Folengo (talk) 13:56, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Done for Title. And this is about what's causal, not casual. Any cause imaginable would be after Strain's dementia battle. That's correlational and chronological, not causal. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:29, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

What you do is incredibly detrimental for the quality of this page. But if everyone else is fine with it, I'll be fine too. Hope someone else expresses his opinion on this. --Folengo (talk) 14:39, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I wish we could have a factual dispute without any personal opinion, for once. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

"After a long battle with..." is a journalistic term used to imply that's the cause of death. What's the real difference between the previous Deadline source and the current Variety source for Satcy Title? Nothing, actually, they said the same thing in different ways, arguably less direct in Deadline. for me it was not enough to DQ it as a source for CoD, like is Heavy Metal for Julie Strain. --Folengo (talk) 15:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I have a journalism degree, and had a short career. That supposed code is news to me. Can you point to anyone who's said this term is used like that? I'm not DQing anything as her actual cause of death, your guess is still possible, absolute truthwise. But on Wikipedia can only relay what's in a source. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Folengo, you're now (as of 16:08) trying to justify "complications of dementia" by pointing to an unreliable blog post (by Roshan at AwakeAndDreaming.org) that you don't cite and that you admit doesn't say "complications". That's improper in three ways. Why are you so insistent on making this up? InedibleHulk (talk) 16:37, 12 January 2021 (UTC

Oh, God, whatever, this is a moot point. I'm tired of discussing. We never have the death certificates, how can we list a Cause of Death? If we start with that we'd remove every CoD on this list, or any death would be due to "cardiac arrest" which is always the ultimate CoD. There was no much doubt regarding Strain's cause of death (two years in hospice care with dementia, sources report "after a long battle with dementia", you exlude sources which states it directly because they are blogs...) before you brought this up. Sincerely I'm tired enough. Bye. --Folengo (talk) 19:29, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

And "complications" because consensus here is "dementia is not a killer". But again, we shall remove every CoD. Or purchase every existing death certificate. That's your logic. Even in a quite obvious case like Julie Strain's. --Folengo (talk) 19:34, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

We don't need a death certificate, relax, just a source saying someone died from something, in any of a variety of perfectly acceptable phrasings. Nothing temporal. Even when a demented person dies unnaturally, they still die after their battle with dementia. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:47, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

"Dementia" might be a catch-all term for any number of neurological degenerative conditions. We don't have any specific details and Strain's doctors had not spoken. 2601:1C0:6B01:3B00:48CE:FA6D:ED94:5D7D (talk) 20:09, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Hmm... it could have been anything (Coroner while examining JFK's corpse)

Ok, then

1)Mr. IP, that's a valid reply. I'll phone Sheldon Adelson's doctor now to get confirmation about his CoD. Oh, no, will you phone him instead?

2)Then if an article would report "died after a long battle with pancreatic cancer" pancreatic cancer should not be listed as a CoD because it "Could have been everything". Sophism at its best.--Folengo (talk) 07:49, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

But what if the pancreatic cancer became too painful and the subject undertook assisted suicide? WWGB (talk) 09:20, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

How can we be sure his cause of death was linked to the assisted suicide? Better remove it!--Folengo (talk) 13:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

At what [expletive] point, do we yank this entire section because there is no longer a Strain discussion? Wyliepedia @ 14:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

You don't. Anything of a controversial nature needs to stay archived to provide a guide to consensus on similar situations in the future. And that's me out of here, behind the parapet. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Could insert another subheading, though, if this must veer into a speculative retelling of American political history. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:32, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Which exemplary movie?

I say Heavy Metal 2000 is better known than The Dallas Connection, and stars a somewhat fictionalized version of herself. Here, opinions do matter. What say the court? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:19, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Folengo, I am satisfied with your verification of the CoD. Thomas Hindmarch of GameRant may not be the most trusted name in news, but he said it, not us. I would've also accepted Alzheimer's disease, per paragraph seven. Do you also trust this article fairly reflects her status as the star of Heavy Metal 2000, or otherwise not object to me replacing the B-movie? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:55, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Fine.--Folengo (talk) 09:05, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Splendid! InedibleHulk (talk) 18:46, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Harry Brant

Can he be removed? He is not notable. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 00:56, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Not by me. Although his death entry is only a blue-linked redirect, someone who gains a full obituary in The New York Times has to be borderline WP:GNG. WWGB (talk) 01:44, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

The New York Times obituary has been changed to one from People. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 02:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Because the NYT isn't readily accessible to everyone, at least not after multiple site views. Wyliepedia @ 02:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Whichever cite we use does not vary my argument: Brant was given a NYT obituary, so someone rates him. WWGB (talk) 05:49, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Mikaela, bluelink redirects can be converted to standalone articles instead at any time. Until that has been tried or the 30 days is up, the person should stay in the list. Ref ^(chew)(do) 04:33, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree, he is not notable, or only "notable" by association. But rules are rules and the redirect stays for 30 days.--Folengo (talk) 19:49, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Contrary to this discussion, the entry was removed by an editor on the basis of WP:NOTINHERITED. In actual fact, the redirect from his name contravenes this edict, the person remains under consideration for his own merits of notability or otherwise, and the entry is restored. I have requested the editor to enter this discussion before carrying out further similar edits. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:11, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I'll abide with what you say. The redirect to Brant's mother simply raised a red flag with me. WP:NOTINHERITED was the basis for deleting him. I'll let the community determine the fate of the entry from this point on. Thanks. Erasmussen (talk) 02:07, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

I cannot command any other editor not to carry out an edit, but the consensus here appears to favour the 30 day pause. Plus, if you examined all the redirects that currently exist in Wikipedia on the basis of WP:NOTINHERITED, you would have a very time-consuming project on your hands deleting article entries because of that. There are multiple-multiple examples of kin being redirected to notable family, I'm sure sometimes just to create a bluelink rather than the ignominious redlink. If the redirect bluelink had previously been a deleted standalone article for the subject, then their right to an entry in the Deaths article would suddenly have been removed, as redlinks are only allowed for 30 days to give editors a chance to create a person article - already-deleted articles nullify that right. The same would apply to unaffected redirects - the final establishment or disestablishment of notability often occurs at the 30 day limit here. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:45, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Wrt magazines available at local libraries (when they reopen!), how about just a good-ol' good-citation-format cite, especially for a source that has omitted to provide anything resembling a permalink? Nothing in the world (except for the obvious right now, obviously) prohibits editors from doing work that involves walking. ELSchissel (talk) 17:00, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@ELSchissel: That comment appears to be about something other than what we have been discussing in this section? Or could you make yourself a bit clearer please? Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 18:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Hank Aaron

He died today at the age of 86 according to several sources. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 15:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done by someone. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:13, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Can stroke be added? Several sources including USA Today are saying this. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 20:06, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

USA Today are quoting their own Sports division as saying he died "after suffering a massive stroke". The Tennessean uses exactly the same phrase in their report, so are obviously quoting USA Today quoting their own Sports division. I wouldn't trust any of it enough to enter the cause as such. Let's wait and see some more. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:03, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

USA Today and The Tennessean are assets of Gannett, so of course their reports will mirror each other. Wyliepedia @ 22:07, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Revolt and Complex are also saying that he died from a stroke. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 22:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

From Complex: "Former Milwaukee Brewers owner Bud Selig, who had been friends with Aaron for 63 years, said he heard from the baseball legend's longtime assistant that he died from a stroke." Same song, different dance. Wyliepedia @ 00:04, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

And we seem to have a couple editors who hate sports who are trying to limit the scope of his line. I will reiterate for all that the MVP is the highest award a baseball player can receive in a year like an Oscar for Best Actor. Also we note world championships on here. An entry is as long as an entry needs to be. Some are longer than others. Its the way it works. You dont abbreviate a man/woman because of the number of great things they did. You should celebrate them for it.SunnyDoo, 22:54, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

And we could be sitting here listing off all his achievements but for the sake of being succinct it’s best to just include an example, a most notable example. When we put Oscars in for actors it’s generally (arguably) considered the highest award an actor can get. We don’t also list off whether they won Tonys, Golden Globes, BAFTAs, Grammys, Critics Choice, Emmys, etc to keep brief as possible. It’s nothing to do with “hating sports” don’t be silly. Rusted AutoParts 23:01, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Larry King

Some sources are not specifying a cause of death like the New York Times. [8] Should COVID-19 be removed until it’s officially been confirmed? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 15:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Absolutely, and it has been removed by someone, quite correctly in my opinion. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:36, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Someone re-added the Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic in Los Angeles category to his Wikipedia page again. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 17:04, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

That isn't relevant to this Deaths in 2021 article. Rusted AutoParts 17:35, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry about that. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 17:57, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Someone re-added that he died from COVID-19. Where is the evidence that he died from that? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 17:34, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

There is still no evidence as yet - see search at https://www.google.com/search?q=larry+king+cause+of+death&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB929GB929&oq=larry+king+cause+of+death. Struck out again. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Where is the evidence that Kennedy died from a bullet wound? --31.158.253.168 (talk) 19:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

At least try to be constructive and not just the comedian, IP. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:36, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Larry died from a sepsis infection: [9] MikaelaArsenault (talk) 15:32, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Also sourced here, which I've used. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:39, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Tocantinense crash victims?

As footballers, their lack of notability is firmly established by which tier of team they played for in life. Thirty days is a long time for a clump of redlinks to stand out, without hope. Undue weight, I say, don't wait. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Why do they keep getting added? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 02:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Ask AntonioMartin. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Fine with me...I just thought since the crash itself was notable, people would want to know who died on it...Antonio El Indio Martin (Can you say, ta ta?) 04:50, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

The crash may be notable, the football players are not. I'm removing. Not sure about the president, is he notable in business? Leaving for now, but won't object if anyone else deletes. WWGB (talk) 05:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Gianluigi02 readded them, since someone thinks several need stub articles. Wyliepedia @ 15:06, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Well, they're the sort of articles that will one day oversaturate and drown Wikipedia, but they do technically disprove the point in my original complaint. Drastic, misguided and slightly devious, but fair play. I concede, contingent on those stubs staying blue. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

The Lucas Meira bluelink is a redirect to the club, so he won't be staying beyond thirty days as it stands right now. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:25, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Jerry Johnson

Johnson was the longtime coach at Lemoyne-Owen College, not Lemoyne College. Although the name of the school was Lemoyne College at the time Johnson worked there, may I recommend changing the text of the link to avoid confusion. 2601:141:8100:5C70:A144:6EDA:F9E1:3116 (talk) 02:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

It'd be more confusing to say he worked at a place that wasn't called that yet. For wrestlers, we use WWWF, WWF or WWE as appropriate. I think I've seen contemporary team names for pro basketball, too, same enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:27, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

No confusion to avoid. When the piped link is clicked, it takes you to the Lemoyne-Owen College article. The displayed text is correct for his timeframe at the College. Ref ^(chew)(do) 08:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

To fix further confusion, I fixed a redirect for "LeMoyne" and added a hatnote at LOC for "Le Moyne". Wyliepedia @ 15:17, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Just for the record, Johnson was coach there for 46 years. It became Lemoyne-Owen in 1968 and he retired in 2005. So he worked at “Lemoyne-Owen” for about 37 years. Rikster2 (talk) 12:12, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Donald Tober

Add Donald Tober , the sweet n low marketer, entrepreneur and Sugar Foods CEO. He passed away on 15 January 2021. It appears that he fell to his death. His notability is explained by the Wall Street Journal Obituary. A page must be created for him or the wikipedia page must be used as the hyperlink connected to his name. [10] Ice Requiem — Preceding undated comment added 09:22, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Was previously discussed here. Not notable. Wyliepedia @ 10:12, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Still-open sections are being removed from this page before they are actually "resolved". Only the simplest edit requests, with no follow-on issues, should be removed over the short-term, leaving remaining issues to be discussed/resolved within the original talk section. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:34, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

6 Dogs

Is he even a notable name that's worthy for this list? I looked him up and he’s a Soundcloud rapper that I don’t think is notable enough for a mention. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 20:54, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I removed him. Let's see how long that lasts. Wyliepedia @ 21:30, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

He's without question notable enough for the list. He's already gotten obituaries on Heavy, The Sun and Daily Mail which is more than you can say about most people on this list. He's very influential in the underground scene and someone will most likely end up making a page for him anyway. He stays, I will make sure of it. Nanerz (talk) 21:44, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Deezer D got TMZ, Iron got Korea Economic Daily and Duke Bootee got Rolling Stone; those are each way heavier than Heavy. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:09, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I still don’t think he’s notable enough though. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 22:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Heavy, The Sun and Daily Mail aren't exactly reliable, but also "he stays, I will make sure of it"? Wyliepedia @ 01:17, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

He has 800,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. I can't think of a reason why he isn't notable enough unless you'd like to provide one. Nanerz (talk) 22:11, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

If monthly rates determined notability, we'd have to delete bios when their numbers dipped. If his career has significant coverage in multiple independent secondary sources, that's more permanent. Look for that before creating a stub (don't just find six obits hitting each identical point and overlink each line). A redlink is fine for now. Rappers often do get posthumous stat bumps, unlike athletes. But influencing an underground scene is nothing, that's where (almost) everyone starts in music. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:26, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

"Fans also like" Oliver Francis, Global Dan, Cold Hart, Drippin So Pretty, Steven Moses (not that one?) and Smrtdeath, for context. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:47, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Someone changed the source to Mirror and that’s not a reliable source either. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 02:08, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. There is no consensus on the reliability of the Daily Mirror. WWGB (talk) 02:15, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I will, thank you. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 02:20, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Update: His article is currently under a Speedy Delete tag, so he may be gone sooner than some think. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:50, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Entry removed from article deletion. Wyliepedia @ 14:46, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I preferred 2 Dogs anyway. WWGB (talk) 00:31, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Sergei Eduardovich Prikhodko

Anyone else want to get in on this edit war with Marbe166? We don't pipe here. Wyliepedia @ 21:24, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

His middle name is used to disambiguate him from the other Sergei Prikhodko names. If his article was instead called Sergei Prikhodko (politician), we would pipe as [[Sergei Prikhodko (politician)|Sergei Prikhodko]], so I don't have a problem with [[Sergei Eduardovich Prikhodko|Sergei Prikhodko]], but I can also live with using the full article name. WWGB (talk) 00:12, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Same feeling here, like Superstar Billy Graham, either works when their jobs are qualified right after. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:29, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I actually thought that piping was not allowed when the pipe was a devious workaround for someone without an article to appear here, who didn't qualify for a wholly relevant redirect. Surely Dame Diana Rigg would be banned in a reverse application of "no pipes"? The Prikhodko pipe is a disambiguation tool and therefore should not be discouraged, as far as I am concerned. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:44, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

My apologies, everyone, I will now presume additional names of 10 letters or less are acceptable. Marbe never really gave a reason for the pipe. So when shortened names start recurring, y'all can fix them. Wyliepedia @ 09:46, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Cloris Leachman

Sources are saying that she either died on Tuesday or today. Sources that say Tuesday: [11] [12] [13] Sources that say Wednesday (today): [14] [15] [16] MikaelaArsenault (talk) 22:29, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Currently placed in Tuesday slot 26th, and I'm not inclined to alter it until some of the above sources change their tune to a more uniform date. Ref ^(chew)(do) 23:47, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

More inclined to say Tuesday. TMZ for example is specific by saying Tuesday night. Rusted AutoParts 00:07, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It may be one of those "died overnight" things. The NYT, which is my gold standard, opts for Wednesday [17]. WWGB (talk) 00:17, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

if that’s what NYT is saying then it sounds more like Wednesday. The stronger citations are saying Wednesday too now that I look at more Rusted AutoParts 00:37, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

A lot of sources are saying Tuesday night. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 01:10, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

And like I said the stronger sources are saying Wednesday. Rusted AutoParts 01:17, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Should she get moved to Wednesday then? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 01:34, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

We are not going to get clarity until we see a funeral notice or a death certificate. I have amended her article to report death on 26/27 January. There is no point starting yo-yo edits here.until the majority of RS agree on a DOD. WWGB (talk) 01:43, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

The only downside is unfortunately it’s not a guarantee we’ll see those things. Celebrity funeral notices are a bit rare for means of privacy, and it’s only occasionally that a death certificate gets reported on by TMZ or The Blast. I really wish there wasn’t a split on the day and that publications update their report to reflect whichever day is the right one, cause a person like Leachman shouldn’t have a DAOTD tag. Rusted AutoParts 14:10, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

In the Died part of the infobox on her article, can someone add January 26/27? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 02:03, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Again, please don't make edit requests for other articles here. Rusted AutoParts 03:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 09:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I have put a death announced on this date after her name on Wednesday so long as it's unclear which one is the correct date. DrKilleMoff (talk) 11:01, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It got removed. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 11:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

My comment from Leachman's article: Okay I have added in a note, a la Olivia de Havilland that explains the situation. I included a source from People magazine that specifies that her manager confirmed to her it was Wednesday. Coupled with the New York Times citing Wednesday per her son, this should be case closed. Rusted AutoParts 23:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

John Chaney

Ok, do teams for athletes/coaches go in chronological order or “importance?” For Chaney, if the order is chronological then Cheyney State goes first. If the team the coach is most identified with is first then that would be Temple. I’m not hard over on it either way, but would like to know the standard going forward (and to make sure the Chaney listing is in line with similar people). Rikster2 (talk) 12:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

No. Inclusion in the subject line is all anyone should worry about. Getting them from first to last, or last to first, is a piece of pedantry and can be dispensed with. Sports teams usually feature clubs before the international team if any, but that's about the only difference I can see regarding the order in which notability links are displayed. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

OK, I have to tell you I looked at a lot of entries of athletes, coaches and performers (actors, etc.) and it seemed like these lists of credits were always in chronological order. Could have been a coincidence of the ones I reviews for certain, but it feels like there are a lot of "unwritten rules" on this page so thought I'd check. Rikster2 (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

The natural reaction of editors who may be blessed with OCD is to arrange in a logical order. That's fine. But I'm saying it's not compulsory, and I think that's fine too. Consensus does not exist either way. Ref ^(chew)(do) 23:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Does a manual of style exist for this page? It should to outline what is compulsory and what isn’t. Rikster2 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

There is an information panel directly above the sections of this talk page, outlining some main points to follow and be aware of. On the Deaths in 2021 main article page, if you click edit or view source, you will now see a set of guidelines above the editing space, which also advises on how an entry should be formulated below it. Other than those two reference points, you are always free to ask about consensus as we believe it to apply here, and you will be answered. The only alternative at the moment would be to put in a template edit request at the template's talk page, but you would need to be absolutely sure that what you wish to be altered is with the majority will of the editors who contribute here i.e. has a consensus for addition, removal or change. There is of course only one official Manual of Style. 17:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)