Talk:Dennis H. Carter

Close paraphrasing, neutrality, etc.

Copied from Onel's talk page:
Appreciate your tags: I agree there is close paraphrasing in the article, so I'll work on that when I can. I'd appreciate it more if you would point out any overly POV and PEACOCK passages. It's a long article. I take it as read that it's not POV to say the body of work of the company or Carter himself had a profound impact on the city of Winnipeg and changed its character: I'm not taking a position as to whether that is for good or ill. Nor is it POV to say he worked well with others: beyond the MAA statement ("master of public relations") there's a documented example of him consulting with students and teachers at a school. I could take out the "gentleman bit" as that's only sourced to the obit.ZarhanFastfire (talk) 19:01, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi ZarhanFastfire. First, I disagree, with saying that he had a profound impact on the city of Winnipeg and its character is not POV. If a reliable, third party source said it, it should be put in quotes and cited. If not, it's commentary and POV. Second, other examples would be using terms like "world-renowned", "distinguished", "prestige" and statements like "commissions grew both in terms of scale and sophistication" are POV. Also, any quotes from non-independent sources, of which I would include the Winnipeg Architecture Foundation, Inc. as these are usually sources of PR for their fields, should not include any praise-like statements, like "Carter and his firm played a central role in the architectural renewal and development of Winnipeg" (unless that is included in the other source footnoted there, should also be removed. These are just examples, there are a few others. Hope this helps.Onel5969 TT me 19:23, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Onel, I've spent about a week addressing the concerns you raised (feels like so much longer somehow!):) This is the first time I've written an article that wasn't mostly film-related. I'd like your opinion about removing the tags. I'm also asking some other experienced general editors to join the discussion, hoping they can offer suggestions.@Bearcat, Flyer... any other editors they can think of. ZarhanFastfire (talk) 00:47, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Smith Carter etc.

Definitely an interesting and useful addition to Wikipedia and I can see a lot of work and research has gone into writing it. Well done!

My usual gripe with articles about architects is that there is often a blurring between the achievements of the architect and the achievments of their company. There's a very good case here for creating a separate article about Smith Carter. And evidently the article here does describe Carter's philosophy and his key role in the early development of the business. Some of the later stuff could be pared down - the company had multiple senior architects and not all of the later buildings were attributable to Carter. Much of the quotes in the lede paragrah are alos about Smith Carter, rather than Dennis Carter. I'd prefer to see more about Carter than the business he founded.

Not quite sure the long quoted paragraph from Herbett Enns is at all necessary either.

It's a shame there aren't more (or any) newspaper/jouralistic obituaries about him. The 'In memoriam' obituary on the Winnipeg Free Press "Passaages" website is clearly a paid-for piece written by the family. Presumably if there are any 'arms length' obits, they must be offline. Or maybe Carter had such a long retirement his legacy had been somewhat forgotten by the public. Sionk (talk) 04:54, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

P.S. as a non-North American I'm unable to access (or search) the Winnipeg Free Press news site or read any of it's articles. Sionk (talk) 05:00, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

I think I did find one or two more official obits with no additional info, I suppose I should replace some of the news obit refs with those. I found it very frustrating that I don't know when he retired at all, and therefore where to stop the career section (1990? 2000?), or whether it's even needed. He could have retired early for all I know, earlier than Smith, though I doubt it. There are two known CEOs in the 21st century, Stirton being the last one. Even then, that wouldn't tell me much since Carter may have had no interest in the managerial side of things, just kept plugging away on a part time basis. In the body, I did try to limit myself to (a) things we know he had a direct role in, or there's a very strong case (Shelagh Carter's anecdote: Richardson was there, what else would they have talked about?) and (b) the more significant things the company did which stand out; some of that could be rendered as notes, particularly if/when Smith Carter gets written (I'd like to keep it all in one place till that happens).; it seemed incomplete not to keep going without being able to pin down the retirement date, so I had to be a bit vague in that section. And I thought bio articles were tough enough to write when the subject was alive...ZarhanFastfire (talk) 06:55, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Sionk, I finally got around to creating Smith Carter. I did so while creating Ernest J. Smith at the same time. I believe much of the issues Onel originally raised were taken care of here, and yet to my suprise one of the articles spun off (Smith Carter) just got a drive by label for being too much like a 'news release', 'news article', etc. I welcome you to have a review of both Smith Carter and Ernest J. Smith (also No. 1 Northern and perhaps my additions to John Cullen Nugent if you're interested. ZarhanFastfire (talk) 04:59, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

You too, Bearcat. :) ZarhanFastfire (talk) 04:59, 27 December 2019 (UTC)