Talk:Des Corcoran

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GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Des Corcoran/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Indy beetle (talk · contribs) 09:04, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this one. My opening comments:

  • I'm not sure if his father's full electoral history is really relevant, except to say that he ran for office several times and did briefly serve in the South Australian House of Assembly from c. 1945–1947 and later in the 1950s (I'm not familiar with how provincial parliamentary terms work in Australia).
Have trimmed this. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:00, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • With regards to Cochran's progression from a warrant officer to a captain, are any dates available here?
No, I've looked around. But I would love to get a copy of his service record at some stage before this goes to FAC, it will help to fill in some gaps. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Corcoran left the Army in 1961 and in the 3 March 1962 state election was elected to the House of Assembly Might be worth clarifying that he was running as a Labor member.
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • was a key player in the modernisation of the state Labor Party as a political force. Can this be elaborated on at all?
Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The new Premier, Frank Walsh, was a Catholic like Corcoran, when the Labor caucus was dominated by Protestants. The subsequent text does not reveal why this is really all that relevant. Corcoran's faith only really seems to be of importance when discussing his relationship with Dunstan.
The Catholic vs Protestant split in the ALP in 1955 is relevant here, I will add some detail. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:55, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Forgive me for my American extraction, but is redistribution analogous to reapportionment? Some Wikilinks might be helpful.
Yes, same thing. I have linked Redistribution (Australia) which is the most relevant one, I think. Anything more I need to do with this? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • His move from Millicent proved a wise one, as Vandepeer received 59.9 per cent of the votes there. Even if this is the opinion of Jaensch (that such a switch of districts was "wise"), this seems to be presenting one work's editorializing in Wikivoice. I suggest revision or removal.
OK, I would say it is WP:BLUE, but it isn't a war-stopper. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot to say I've reworded it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:54, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • with Coles falling to Jennifer Cashmore of the renamed Liberal Party. It might help explicitly clarifying that the Liberal Party was the successor to the LCL.
Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Corcoran was elected his successor, thus finally achieving his dream of becoming premier on 15 February. If Cochran had long time ambitions of becoming state premier, it might be worth expanding upon that fact, if sources allow.
Well, I think the fact he contested the leadership when Dunstan became leader indicates the level of ambition. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:16, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • He also served as treasurer along with adding the ethnic affairs portfolio to immigration. The Wikilink for "treasurer" is to the national position, and I'm not sure if this is appropriate. Here in the US, state offices with names which coincidentally match those of federal offices can differ greatly in the responsibilities and parameters under which they operate. Maybe remove the link and revise as "state treasurer"?
No, the wikilink is to the state position, but added "state" for clarity. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apologies, I must have clicked too many times. -Indy beetle (talk) 09:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was succeeded by the much younger John Bannon, whose urbane style and academic background meant he was much closer to Dunstan than to Corcoran. The article gives the impression that Dunstan had retired years ago, so why is the comparison warranted in the article on Cochran?
    I think this is clearer now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:07, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Corcoran died on 3 January 2004 In Adelaide?
Yes, not sure how I missed that. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rann went on to say that Corcoran would be "sorely missed" as someone who was larger than life and respected on both sides of politics in South Australia. "Both sides" meaning by people on different sides of the left/right or Labor/Liberal political spectrum, I presume?
Yes, went with something like that. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:05, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a general comment which does not seek an explicit response but a general explanation. The article seems to be a comprehensive catalogue of his career progression, but does little to elaborate on what he actually pushed for while in office. His "dream" was to become state premier, so what did he do during that time? I'm sympathetic if we want to avoid OR by using disparate newspaper sources in a feeble attempt to weave a narrative, but surely there must be some policy proposals he championed? Best I can relate to, here in the US it would confusing to have a GA for a governor of a state without discussing his personal politics and policies beyond generic support for his party (with Terry Sanford its improved public education and race relations, William F. Winter its improved public education and generic government reforms, James Holshouser its reducing expenditures, environmental protections, and—like Cochran—provding key leadership to a party which had long been out of power, etc.).

-Indy beetle (talk) 09:04, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've captured some of this with the description of his first speech, but I will be working to expand this fully before FAC. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I respect the effort, but I wonder if this is really appropriate with regards to WP:PRIMARY and WP:DUE, as the speech record itself is being cited. Is there not a contemporary news article which discusses his first speech to the House? -Indy beetle (talk) 09:23, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've tried to locate an article in the contemporary newspapers, but unfortunately they aren't digitised and searchable, and a manual look at the papers of the afternoon and the two following days didn't find anything. I think Hansard is a reliable source for what he said. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:07, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
G'day Indy beetle, all done I think. Thanks for your patience. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:56, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I was on vacation this past week. Nothing that Earwig's tool is showing no noteworthy problems. I'm passing this now as this seems the best we'll be able to get with the currently available source material. A lack of depth on his policies and motivations might be an obstacle to further advancement (FA etc.) but this is good enough for GA. -Indy beetle (talk) 07:29, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a. (reference section):
    b. (citations to reliable sources):
    c. (OR):
    d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a. (major aspects):
    b. (focused):
    Broad in coverage.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    Not seeing neutrality issues here.
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
    Article is stable.
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
    One fair use photo.
    b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    A portrait of the subject is included, and indeed relevant.
  7. Overall:
    Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Comments by JennyOz[edit]

Hi PM, I've finished having a look. I notced the GA review has been picked up in meantime so hope my comments don't confuse the issue. I've included typos as well as comments on flow etc. One day you'll be sorry you asked! What a shame he doesn't have an ADB entry! Please move ― or remove:) or hat ― my comments to elsewhere if necessary.

Lede

  • Following his discharge in 1961, Corcoran 1962 state election was elected - something amiss in wording here
  • succeeding his father Jim Corcoran as the member - Jim needs dab. Maybe put 'retiring' before "father"? (looks like he knocked his father off at the election?)
  • but the formed a strong and - they
  • he gained the environment portfolio, retaining marine and works. As premier, Corcoran - That's a sudden unexplained jump from being Dunstan's deputy to premier, maybe a word or two about Dunstan's resignation
All done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:50, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early life and military service

  • attended Tantanoola Primary School,[4] but left school at 13 - did he make it to high school?
Haven't been able to find any reference to it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • He joined the Australian Labor Party in 1941, aged 15 - Add (ALP) here. Maths doesn't work. The SA gov ref is wrong? Was there a minimum age to join ALP, 15? That would make year 1943. Maybe just leave year out?
Have left year out. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the meantime, following [through to] again in the 1950 state election." - I think this could be a separate para? (just a flow suggestion.) Then, I think the bit "Robert [through to] 1952,[11] and Des was allocated" would read better as '1952 [11]. Des was allocated the service number 23934, and was allotted as... (because it sounds like Des was already in Korea)
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • After further training, 1 RAR were transported to Korea - 1 RAR was or were?
Was... ooops. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Des married Carmel Campbell and they had eight children - placement looks odd at end of a para about father's elections. (I see you've added a little here since I first read it - more later*) When did he get back from PNG?
I was just putting it as close to chronologically as I could. I could just move it to the Death and Legacy section? No idea about PNG, can't find anything in Trove, I'm ordering a copy of his service record to look at before pushing this along to FAC. It should add a bit of detail about his service career. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • When the ALP won government - acronym not yet defined, add it to He joined the Australian Labor Party in 1941
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Politics

  • Corcoran's father Jim died in May 1965 - out of place?
Changed to "had". OK? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coinciding with the septuagenarian Walsh's retirement in May 1967 - septuagenarian means between 70-79 - clarify?
  • Coinciding with the septuagenarian Walsh's retirement in May 1967 - so he retired as premier that month but remained a member til 68? Was it just an announcement in May 1967?
Clarified this whole issue. They effectively pushed Walsh out as premier to give someone else a crack before the term ended. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with Corcoran receiving 52.5 per cent of the votes, leaving the new Steele Hall LCL government to rely on the casting vote of independent Speaker Tom Stott." - I couldn't understand why someone with 52.5 per cent of the votes needed a casting vote. Is there a bit missing ie explaining that with Corcoran winning the by-election, seats were even? The para started with "Labor lost government at the 2 March 1968 state election," maybe restructure this para? start it with At the 2 March 1968 state election, the LCL and Labor won the same number of seats or Corc nearly lost his seat at ...byelection... However his win meant that the LCL and Labor had won the same no of seats and it was left to Stott... and so Labor had lost the election.
Yes, thanks. Doh! Reworded and added a bit. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • the renamed Liberal Party. - with the LCL being renamed the Liberal Party
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:20, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • while retaining the rest of his portfolios - while retaining his other portfolios
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • achieving his dream of becoming premier on 15 February. - dream? ambition?Add comma after premier
Changed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The future premier Mike Rann served - Mike Rann, who later became premier
Changed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • he was much closer to Dunstan - means much closer in style to Dunstan? (as Dunstan not still a member)
Yes, changed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • but Corcoran did not contest his seat of Hartley - had decided to retire from politics? do we know why, when?
  • was retained for Labor by Terry Groom - Corocran's vacated seat was retained for Labor by Terry Groom
  • re marriage etc - all I can think of is to change last section to Personal life, death and legacy and add kids, arthritis (often doubled in pain in parliament), sports these from trove 8th in newspapers refs
  • Heggen, Belinda - link Belinda Heggen
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:20, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jory, Rex - link Rex Jory
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:20, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As you know I sometimes have trouble verbalising my confusion so pls ask for clarifications where needed. Best wishes JennyOz (talk) 13:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 22:44, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

Improved to Good Article status by Peacemaker67 (talk). Self-nominated at 08:06, 30 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Des Corcoran; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Hook is sufficiently interesting, but quoting and adding "in evacuation" or "in evacuating casualties" might make it more interesting. —siroχo 10:16, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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