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Talk:Dietrich IV, Count of Cleves

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Serious problems here[edit]

  • This article doesn't have any citations
  • It includes on the mainspace article a statement that should be a talk page concern: "According to the German, Dutch and French Wikipedia there was only one Dietrich between 1172 and 1198. This Dietrich was the son of Dietrich II and Adelaide of Sulzbach and was married to Margaret of Holland. This would make Dietrich III and Dietrich IV the same person."
  • But that's a big concern
  • There don't seem to be any active editors
  • The editor who created this article, and similar Dietrich V, Count of Cleves, Dietrich III, Count of Cleves, etc., was blocked long ago.
  • If all I had to do was propose a merger of Dietrich IV and Dietrich III -- which I think is called for -- that would (I think) dictate renumbering all the Dietrichs.
  • This Oxford reference timeline indicates a significantly different ordering of the Dietrichs and their times in office. Novellasyes (talk) 13:46, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is a muddle! I think we should certainly follow the Oxford reference timeline, which is a good RS for this. I'll look more closely at how to actually do that. I've also been able to determine that this book discusses Dietrich IV on p. 67-71 (google books has a preview of the index) but I can't actually access those pages to see what they say. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 21:51, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Having gone through all of them, I am worried there's something I'm not understanding about Arnold II and a Dietrich regency. (So I haven't boldly tried to remove a Dietrich yet.) I feel like an expert or someone who can read German would be helpful. I raised a conversation at Talk:Duchy of Cleves since that seemed like a more "central" location for the overall problem. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 02:22, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Man, stuff like this is always a mess for Wikidata too.★Trekker (talk) 12:14, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When I get time over the next 4-5 days, I'm going to make a sandbox laying out the Oxford timeline versus ours, with the articles, so it is possible to see at a glance what would need to be done -- a roadmap. I will drop the link to that in here once I have started it. Novellasyes (talk) 12:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also found this more thorough version in the German DNB, which indicates they all have different numbers. Frankly, right now I think the right approach is probably to merge all the individual Dietrich articles to Duchy of Cleves (except maybe a few of the later ones that seem to have actual sources about them?) and just try to get the Duchy of Cleves article thorough and accurate. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 04:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a far more straightforward and elegant solution than the vague ideas I've been having. I agree with it. Novellasyes (talk) 13:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'm reading up on Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers#When to propose a merger. I would be happy to follow the procedure for Type 2 or Type 3 mergers described here, with the merge banners, the discussion area, and all of that. But I am wondering if this is actually a Type 1 merger ("Mergers that are so obviously necessary and appropriate that no one is expected to object."). Any thoughts on that? Novellasyes (talk) 20:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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