Talk:Dina (disambiguation)

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Requested move 12 June 2024[edit]

It has been proposed in this section that Dina (disambiguation) be renamed and moved to Dina.

A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

Dina (disambiguation) → Dina – Dina is just a redirect to Dina (disambiguation). No incoming links Special:WhatLinksHere/Dina showing some special meanings. MrKeefeJohn (talk) 07:18, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Google doesn't show a clear primary topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:05, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Not a speedy technical request, as usually is the case for unnecessary "(disambiguation)", since Dina was recently moved unilaterally to Dina (given name) by Abcmaxx. So this RM would have the effect of endorsing that move as well. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:29, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This was another case of splitting disambiguation and given name lists per WP:NAMELIST, it happened on June 9 with a bold move that had no actual explanation[1]. We need to examine this with a modicum of rigor, per WP:DPT.

Here are the all-time monthly page views for Dina and the hatnote destination. This new redirect also obscured the WikiNav results for Dina, which now only redirect to those for the old hatnote destination. Those show a small amount of clicks to the Chilean historical secret police and then the Mexican bus manufacturer.

Based on this, it's not clear why we should be adding another click to see the biographies, as most of the time the ratio of the traffic that landed at Dina and the traffic that went for the navigation aid is usually like 10 : 1, though most recently it's been a bit smaller, so maybe there's something to ponder.

Here are the actual clickstreams from Dina from the archive so we get a better view:

Some recent Dina clickstreams

From the meta:Research:Wikipedia clickstream archive:

clickstream-enwiki-2020-11.tsv:

Dina Dinah link 54
Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 46
Dina Jophiel link 37
Dina Constantina link 28
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 25
Dina Dina_Ali_Lasloom link 23
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 22
Dina Jacob link 20
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 18
Dina Dina_Eastwood link 13
Dina Princess_Dina_Mired_of_Jordan link 12
Dina Dina_Wadia link 10
Dina Dina_Asher-Smith link 10
total: 318 to 13 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2022-05.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 65
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 36
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 23
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 15
Dina Deena link 11
total: 150 to 5 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-07.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 47
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 21
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 15
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 15
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 12
Dina Dina_(belly_dancer) link 11
Dina Dina_Mired link 10
total: 131 to 7 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-08.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 46
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 23
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 23
Dina Deena link 16
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 14
Dina Dina_Asher-Smith link 13
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 12
Dina Dina_Mired link 11
Dina Dina_Eastwood link 11
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 11
Dina Dina_Doron link 10
Dina Dina_Bélanger link 10
total: 200 to 12 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 39
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 31
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 25
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 14
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 13
Dina Dina_Meyer link 11
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 11
Dina Dina_Averina link 10
Dina Dina_Asher-Smith link 10
total: 164 to 9 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-10.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 47
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 19
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 17
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 15
Dina Dina_Mired link 15
Dina Dina_Doron link 13
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 13
Dina Dina_Asher-Smith link 12
Dina Dina_Ali_Lasloom link 11
total: 162 to 9 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-11.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 43
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 26
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 21
Dina Dina_Mired link 18
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 16
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 16
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 15
Dina Deena link 11
total: 166 to 8 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-12.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 58
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 25
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 19
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 15
Dina Dina_Mired link 14
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 14
Dina Deena link 13
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 11
Dina Dina_Babbitt link 11
Dina Dina_Asher-Smith link 11
Dina Dina_Averina link 10
total: 201 to 11 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 49
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 33
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 32
Dina Dina_Miftakhutdynova link 17
Dina Dina_Averina link 16
Dina Dina_Mired link 15
Dina Dina_Lévi-Strauss link 15
Dina Deena link 14
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 13
Dina Dina_Meyer link 13
Dina Dina_Doron link 13
Dina Dina_(belly_dancer) link 13
Dina Dina_Ali_Lasloom link 12
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 12
Dina Dina_Porat link 10
Dina Dina_Lohan link 10
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 10
Dina Dina_Asher-Smith link 10
total: 307 to 18 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 48
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 19
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 19
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 14
Dina Dinah other 13
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 12
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 10
total: 135 to 7 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 43
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) link 25
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 18
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 18
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid link 14
Dina Dinah_Washington link 13
Dina Deena link 12
Dina Diwan_Dina_Nath link 10
Dina Dina_Boluarte link 10
total: 163 to 9 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-04.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) other 51
Dina Dinah_(disambiguation) other 25
Dina Dena_(given_name) other 18
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional other 14
Dina Deena other 12
Dina Dinah_Washington other 11
Dina Dina_bint_Abdul-Hamid other 11
Dina Dina_Boluarte other 10
total: 152 to 8 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-05.tsv:

Dina Dina_(disambiguation) link 45
Dina Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 16
Dina Dina_(belly_dancer) link 10
Dina Dena_(given_name) link 10
total: 81 to 4 identified destinations

Some recent Dina (disambiguation) clickstreams

From the meta:Research:Wikipedia clickstream archive:

clickstream-enwiki-2020-11.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 50
Dina_(disambiguation) Dina link 29
total: 79 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2022-05.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 41
Dina_(disambiguation) Dina link 16
total: 57 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-07.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 30
Dina_(disambiguation) Dina link 14
total: 44 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-08.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 20
total: 20 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 39
total: 39 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-10.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 23
total: 23 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-11.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 22
Dina_(disambiguation) Dina link 12
total: 34 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-12.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 22
Dina_(disambiguation) Dina link 13
Dina_(disambiguation) Dina_(surname) link 10
total: 45 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 20
total: 20 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 37
total: 37 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 14
total: 14 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-04.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional other 21
total: 21 to 1 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-05.tsv:

Dina_(disambiguation) Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional link 21
Dina_(disambiguation) DINA_S.A. link 10
total: 31 to 2 identified destinations

So, we can see that readers consistently used the hatnote to access the article about the Chilean secret police, which is DINA. However, the volume there just isn't huge compared to other clicks, and indicated merely a need to add the Chilean article into the hatnote.

Thinking a bit about that DINA vs Dina issue, there is usually some overlap in traffic for uppercase/lowercase, but WP:DABCOMBINE is just a guideline, not a policy that would have to be strictly observed. DINA had previously been merged into Dina with this 2016 edit. Maybe that should have been reverted and the two lists kept separate.

Let's have a look at overall traffic for all articles named Dina:

Here we can see that Dina Meyer gets 1.5k views/day, Dina Eastwood almost 1.5k views/day, Dina Merrill almost 1k views/day, etc.

At the same time, DINA agency gets ~0.1k views/day, and the bus maker gets ~0.05k views/day.

For comparison, Dina Pugliese is the article from the list of biographies that has comparable traffic to the Chilean agency, and it's at #14 if I counted right.[2] I absolutely sympathize with the idea that a topic of clear long-term significance should get preference over topics of lesser significance, but if even a random morning TV personality has comparable usage, and then there's 13 more topics with much much more readership ahead of that, then the reader interest just isn't there, and we shouldn't try to manufacture it. An encyclopedia describes, it does not prescribe.

So, this change was apparently a bad idea, because we're now prioritizing navigation to minor topics where the overall readership of Dina topics is clearly on the side of people named Dina, but we're hiding those behind yet another extra click. For the average English reader, the word "Dina" is most likely a reference to people named that way, not a reference to the DINA acronym, and navigation should be organized with that in mind.

Rather than doing this, we should be thinking how to best organize the list of people named Dina so that we don't bury the lede, so that readers most quickly navigate where the most interest actually lies, which is one of the points of WP:D. This bold move should have just been reverted. (Oppose) --Joy (talk) 08:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]