Talk:Dodge Lancer/Archive 1

Terminology

The size terminology of the '60-'62 Dart has been debated back and forth (large/midsize) for quite awhile in this article. The difficulty lies in translating yesterday's car sizes to today's. It'll probably never be decided to everyone's satisfaction; the '60-'62 Dart was officially a midsize car by the standards of the day, but by today's standard it was quite large. Calling it a "midsize" car offends those who view it as a gunboat, while calling it a "large" car ignores the larger-than-Dart Dodge models sold in those years. Calling it a "midsize/large" car is nonsensical and doesn't really fix the problem. Since this isn't an article about the '60-'62 Dart, I really think calling that car a larger car gets the job done best. It conveys that the '60-'62 Dart was larger than the Lancer, and larger than the compact Dart introduced for 1963, and that's really all that's needed in the context of this article.

As for whether to call the '61-'62 Lancer 2-door pillarless cars hardtops or coupes, that's another debatable point. The marketeering efforts of the day used both terms, usually calling the 1961 car a "Sports Coupe" and usually calling the 1962 car a "Hardtop". Factory service literature refers to both year cars as "hardtop". By the strict definitions of the terms, these cars are hardtops, for their interior volume is nearly identical to that found in the 2- and 4-door sedans. Take a look at the coupe and hardtop articles for an in-depth discussion of the differences between the two terms.

Which brings us to the mysteriously-disappearing 2-door sedan variants of these cars. I have twice added this body style back to the list after deletion. The 2-door hardtops were the premium, top-of-the-range Lancers for 1961 ("Lancer 770 Sports Coupe") and 1962 ("Lancer GT Hardtop"), but the basic 170 and deluxe 770 trim levels also included 2-door sedans, with a B-pillar.

It is probably worth adding mention of the South African "DeSoto Rebel" badged version of the '61-'62 Lancer, so I'll try to get to that soon. Scheinwerfermann 02:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Trans Four

"Trans Four" was neither a Chrysler marketing nor a Chrysler engineering term. It refers generically to a transversely-mounted 4-cylinder engine, and was widely used throughout the industry in the late '70s through mid '80s when FWD vehicles equipped with such engines were replacing RWD vehicles with longitudinally-mounted engines in the North American market. The term appeared in ads for numerous different vehicle makes, as well as in articles in automotive magazines. Simply because it appeared in a Chrysler Corporation ad you saw does not make it an "official name" for the engine. Some engines introduced during this time period did have official names, examples being the Mitsubishi Astron 2.6 L engine and the Oldsmobile Quad-4 engines. But, the 2.2 and 2.5 L Mopar engines did not have an official name of this type. Scheinwerfermann 02:58, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I have never seen the term "Trans Four" used as a generic term. Whenever I do a search for "Trans Four" on Google, the first pages that come up are about the Chrysler K-car engine, and nothing else concerning car engines. I've even seen K-car enthusiasts refer to the K-car engine as the "Trans Four" engine. Like I said, I've only seen the term used in Chrysler ads (and this is coming from somebody who likes old car brochures and the like); you'll have to show me some of these ads and articles you're talking about, so I can see what you're getting at. --ApolloBoy 03:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks for clarifying your position. "I've never seen it" is not the same as "It never happened". I am fortunate to be surrounded in my office by an immense collection of automotive sales, service and engineering literature from markets worldwide as well as a similarly wide collection of the world's auto magazines. While my collection runs heavily to Chrysler Corporation vehicles, many makes are represented. This affords me a wider perspective on terminology issues such as this one than can be had with smaller collections or when one must hoof it to the public library to page through magazines. As far as showing you some of the ads and articles, if you're ever in Toronto you're welcome to visit my collection. In the meantime, grab a stack of 'Car and Driver' and 'Motor Trend' magazines covering the years 1983 through 1989 or so, keep a tally sheet handy, and within forty-five minutes, unless you're reading selectively, you're sure to see that the term is anything but exclusive to Chrysler.

As far as the results you've had with Google searches, I'm sure you've seen exactly what you say you've seen, but the results of any given search on Google are in no way authoritative for the purposes of an effort such as Wikipedia.

Scheinwerfermann 03:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lancer Shelby.jpg

Image:Lancer Shelby.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Second Generation Picture

The current picture for the 2nd generation Lancer is cropped out. I feel that this picture is more suitable, it shows more of the vehicle and has a complete background.

2nd Generation Lancer

I agree with you. This image isn't of super high quality, but it's better than the image with the crudely modified background. I've made the replacement. --Scheinwerfermann (talk) 17:00, 25 December 2007 (UTC)