Talk:Dorgon

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dorgon article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

China: History Mid‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Chinese history (assessed as Mid-importance).

Biography: Military / Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Military history: Biography / Asian / Chinese / Early Modern C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Asian military history task force
	Chinese military history task force
	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Borjigin#Khorchin Mongols|Khorchin Borjigit]] The anchor (#Khorchin Mongols) is no longer available because it was deleted by a user before.
[[Borjigin#Zha'ermang (扎爾莽) Mongols|Zha'ermang Borjigit]] The anchor (#Zha'ermang (扎爾莽) Mongols) is no longer available because it was deleted by a user before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Protected

Because of edit-warring, I have protected the page for 3 days. This should give all editors ample time to have a discussion here over what the problem is, and to work out a consensus. Reverting one another's edits (and, particularly, reverting edits without giving any explanation for why, as Andres has done twice) is not an appropriate way to resolve disputes.

Per WP:BRD, I restored the article to its last version before the dispute began. This does not mean I favor either version over another; it's just standard procedure that, if a new change is contested, it be undone until a consensus is reached. rʨanaɢ (talk) 03:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Rjanag. Appreciate the protection. I will advance my case and let Andres discuss his point of view. It seems to me the issue at hand is whether or not we consider Dorgon and Emperor, but more importantly whether we should present it as such in the article. The facts are quite straightforward - Dorgon was regent to the Shunzhi Emperor, and he was posthumously declared to be Emperor. These facts are discussed adequately in the article. Pushing for Wikipedia to define Dorgon as an Emperor is a whole other story. In no history books is he recorded as being an Emperor in the conventional sense - they describe his posthumous ascendancy to be relevant only in terms of rank - some consider it the work of Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang, with whom he was rumoured to have a relationship. Whatever the reason may have been, he is not considered an Emperor in all major works of Chinese historiography. This article puts it the most succinctly: Dorgon was "An Emperor who was not Emperor". The article should be treated accordingly - mention the fact that he was posthumously declared Emperor, but do not define him as one. Colipon+(Talk) 23:10, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Shunzhi was the de facto emperor throughout 1644-1661 - the calendar usage then was based on "Shunzhi", not whatever era names of Dorgon. No News ! 01:44, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus in support of move at present. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 18:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dorgon → Chengzong Emperor — According to Chinese practice he should be refered by his posthumous name--Andres rojas22 (talk) 15:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Have a discussion before filing a move request. It is already obvious (see above section) that people don't agree with your move; you need to gain consensus through discussion, you can't just keep looking for ways to circumvent it. rʨanaɢ (talk) 17:39, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. He's usually referred to as Dorgon in English-language sources. — AjaxSmack 02:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Dorgon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140301055803/http://book.sina.com.cn/excerpt/sz/rw/2010-01-13/1331265392.shtml to http://book.sina.com.cn/excerpt/sz/rw/2010-01-13/1331265392.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:41, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

東莪.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]