Talk:Dvesha

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Disa or Dosa

Copied from my talk page for context

I changed the Pali form in the translation box from disa back to dosa- not sure if the Devnagari was changed as well, but it's beyond my abilities. Dosa is the translation used throughout the article and in the Three Poisons article, and seems to be conventional in general and academic discussions. Disa seems to refer specifically to the hatred of an enemy rather than the more general notion of aversion, and only has a couple attested uses in the PED. --Spasemunki (talk) 04:05, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Spasemunki: Disa and Dosa are two Pali words, with cognates in Sanskrit. See a Pali-Sanskrit dictionary, such as Rhys Davids on Disa and Dosa. Dvesha/Disa is right per page 1067 of this and other WP:RS. If you find a WP:RS that supports Dosa, I don't mind including it and the source as well for NPOV. Do you have a reliable source for your suggestion/comment above? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 11:56, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rhys Davids notes on pg. 332 in the Pali English Dictionary that the Sanskrit devsha is more commonly used as in the equivalent of the first meaning of dosa (corruption, fault) which is not the distinct meaning that dosa is given in the context of the three unwholesome roots (it's second meaning, as hatred or aversion). So in general disa is equivalent of dvesha in meaning, but disa is not a correct equivalent for dvesha when dvesha is being used to translate the concepts discussed as the three unwholesome roots. Essentially dvesha is the Sanskrit equivalent used to translate dosa in the Agamas, but in other cases the ordinary Pali equivalent of dvesha is disa. I see dvesha but not disa on pg. 1067 of the source you mention, whereas the PED is unequivocal that dosa and not disa is the word paired with lobha/raga and moha.

So: when going from Pali to Sanskrit, it goes dosa(1,2) -> dvesha and disa -> dvesha. But when going from Sanskrit to Pali in most cases it is dvesha -> disa or dosa(1), but in the context of the Three Poisons/Unwholesome roots (which this article is about) the correct equivalence is dvesha -> dosa(2).

Compare for instance the variety of sources on Google Books (~4-5k hits, mostly as in a list with lobha and moha) vs. (125 results, mostly as part of other compounds, or on Access to Insight [1] vs. [2]. The former has about 50 results, mostly again in a list with lobha and moha, whereas the latter has only 7 results, mostly where where the fragment 'disa' is part of an unrelated compound word. I also note that the advesha article lists the Pali equivalent as adosa, not adisa- the same page of the PED gives adosa as the absence of hatred or aversion, whereas no antonym for disa is provided. --Spasemunki (talk) 02:13, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How about we mention and discuss all this and these variants in this article for NPOV: Dosa, Disa and Dvesha with appropriate sources? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 02:35, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]