Talk:E. C. Stoner

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:E.C. Stoner/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Fish and karate (talk · contribs) 14:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

As karma for submitting an article I wrote to GA, I'm reviewing E.C. Stoner. First draft of review is below. Pinging Etzedek24 as nom, also Dimadick and Colonel Warden as significant contributors.

Lead

• Adequately summarizes article? Y
• All facts in lead referenced in article somewhere? Y now fixed
  • DOB is not directly referenced, it's in reference 2 though

I have added this to the body.

• • "one of the first African-American comic book artists" - backed up by ref 4, but not directly referenced, it would be good to discuss this in the body of the article in a bit more detail.

Added.

• • "Near the end of his life, Stoner was also a spokesman for Gordon's Gin" - not in body of article. Image caption makes same claim without reference to support. Image page (File:ECStoner_Gordons.jpg) says it's a fair use crop from the July 30, 1966 edition Pittsburgh Courier, can this be verified? Ref 4 does mention Stoner worked as a spokesman for Gordon's, so the source is there to use.

I cropped the photo from the article, which had a headline of "Noted Artist-Author Graces Gordon's Ads". Hoping AGF will suffice on that one but I can get a screengrab if not.

Body of article

Well written

• Is the prose is clear and concise? Y
• Is the spelling and grammar are correct Y All fine
• Does it comply with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Y now fixed
  • This gives you a better reference for his creation of Mr Peanut

I wasn't able to view the specific page you linked, but I want to question the claim of a better source. Quattro's article was eventually reprinted in Alter Ego, a prominent comics journal.

That's fine

• • "supposedly also sponsored by Kirby" - why supposedly? Do we doubt the source?

This is essentially what the source says, that Kirby likely paid Stoner's tuition but no one knows for sure.

That's fine

• • "some have noted that since Stoner's tenure" - who? If we know who, we can say this, we don't need to obscure the fact with "some have".

I added the names of the authors of the sources.

• • Why is Ajaz the Sun-Man specifically described as a minor feature? That's unreferenced, and what is a minor feature anyway?

I have added the ref from the works table for this. Ajax would have been one of many minor stories in the Doc Savage anthology series, which printed the main Doc Savage stories as well as other minor series.

• • " the virulent criticism of comics in the early-to-mid 1950s" - perhaps a link to Comics_Code_Authority#Founding, Seduction of the Innocent, and/or United_States_Senate_Subcommittee_on_Juvenile_Delinquency#1954_comic_book_hearings would help here, to help frame what this criticism was.

I've linked to Seduction of the Innocent here. I'm working on a timeline of the American anti-comics movement but it's in userspace and I feel like SOTI would be the best link of the ones you suggested.

Verifiable with no original research

• Does it contain a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline? Y
• Are all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines? Y
  • Over half the article is sourced from one Ken Quattro article hosted on blogspot, but some poking around tells me I'm happy we can take Quattro as a reliable source on the history of comics, he's been published quite a lot and has articles on plenty of 'legit' sites.
  • The style and reception bit needs to say who made that lengthy quote (not just via the reference). "Ken Quattro said ..", along those lines.

Has been fixed

• Does it contain no original research? Y now fixed
  • "After the conclusion of the comic series, Stoner illustrated at least 1 souvenir program for Harry Blackstone Sr., the namesake of the series."" Unreferenced. The (copyright-free) 1948 Blackstone Sr. souvenir cover image claims Stoner was the artist of this cover, this is not verifiable. The source provided for this image (comicsville.com) is no longer functioning.

This is in the Quattro piece, and his signature is at bottom left in the image. From Quattro: "Elmer wasn’t quite done with the master magician, though. He also provided the cover art to several programs that were distributed at the real Harry Blackstone’s magic shows in the late 1940s. Note that Stoner's artwork is noticeably more polished and he even uses a different signature than in his comic book work."

• • "Like Fawcett, however, Parents did not credit their artists" needs a reference, the reference provided does not support this claim.

I have removed this and below claims from the article. It could be supplemented with a link to True Comics (which is PD) that shows no artist credit in most of the comics but I found it not really that important as I did all I could to verify his comics authorship with GCD.

• • "... but Fawcett did not credit their artists" is unreferenced.

See above.

• Does it contain copyright violations or plagiarism? Y
  • Cross-checked with every reference I could, none found.

Broad in its coverage

• Does it address the main aspects of the topic? Y now fixed
  • Phantasmo was illustrated by Stoner, and was the first original super-hero character appearing in Dell's The Funnies. ([1]) I think that's worth adding to the article.

You're right. Added.

• • Similarly, there's no real mention of Stoner's 1945 work on Challenger by the interfaith committee of the Protestant Digest, which is interesting, and described here as 'anti-fascist with funny animal filler'

I have made a more prominent mention of the comic.

• Does it stay focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style)? Y

Neutral

• Does it represent viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each? Y

Stable

• Does the article change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute? Y
  • No issues obvious in article history or on talk page.

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio

• Is media tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content? Y now fixed
  • Need provenance for main image, as mentioned above. Y now provided
• Some of other images are all there for decoration. Unless they are public domain, they need to be removed:

  File:Introducing Mr Peanut.PNG is missing its source. If really from pre-1923 then the PD claim is ok, but we cannot know this without a source. Y rationale fixed

The newspaper is available to view on the Google News Archive, I have added a link to the Commons page.

• File:StonerFunniesCover.jpg source is no longer available, and I'd query whether a company being defunct means its works are no longer in copyright. Needs to be removed from article and deleted. Y removed from article, now at xFD

This was an oversight on my part, as Digital Comic Museum notes that only some Funnies issues are PD due to the presence of copyrighted strips in issues 30 to 56. I've removed it and nominated it for deletion. Phantasmo being a public domain character led to my confusion.

• File:Blackstone47.jpg Rationale is invalid, the rationale specifies "the issue of the comic book in question", "the periodical comic book series of which this issue is a part", or "the copyrighted comic book character(s) or group(s) on the cover of the issue in question". Not as decoration for the article about the artist. Needs to be removed from article and deleted. Y removed from article and speedied

Done.

• As mentioned above, File:ECStoner48BlackstoneTour.jpg source is no longer available, and the fair use rationale claims it is public domain as it was published before 1923. This is patently untrue. Needs to be removed from article and deleted. Y removed from article and speedied

Done.

• File:StonerWarComics.png is fine. Y

• Is media relevant to the topic, with suitable captions? Y now fixed

  As mentioned above, the claim Stoner worked as a spokesman for Gordon's Gin is not referenced in the body of the article, the only place this is supported is in the file information, which is not a reliable source.

I have sourced this to the Courier article, which is about his selection for the ad.

• See note above about provenance of 1948 Blackstone Sr. souvenir cover, its copyright status is not verifiable, nor is its provenance.

Observations

• Should name format be E. C. Stoner (note spacing), as per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Initials? "An initial is capitalized and is followed by a full point (period) and a space (e.g. J. R. R. Tolkien), unless a) the person demonstrably has a different, consistently preferred style for his or her own name; and b) an overwhelming majority of reliable sources use that variant style for that person." All the references appear to use "E. C. Stoner". This does not fail a GAN, however, so is an observation.

I will move the page per MOS.

If you would like to, great, and I think that would be a help, but it's not essential.

• On that note, E. C. Stoner is a disambiguation page, so perhaps so should E.C. Stoner be; this probably needs to be resolved by this article moving to either Elmer Cecil Stoner or E. C. Stoner (comics) or something similar. Again, not something to pass/fail a GAN on.

Since it's just two people, I'm wont to leave this without a disambiguation as the other E.C. Stoner is referenced more by his full name, Edward Clifton Stoner. I think that the directions in the top of the article clear up any confusion.

OK, great.

So just a few things to fix. It's a good article (and almost a Good Article). The main issues are with the ropey provenance and fair use rationales of the comicbook cover images, and a few missing references. Fish+Karate 14:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

@Fish and karate: I have gone through and made the changes you specified. Please ping me if you have any questions. Etzedek24 ^{(I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record)} 16:24, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the issues so promptly. I'm happy with the result and close this as a pass. Well done Etzedek24. Fish+Karate 08:17, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

I think this E.C. Stoner has to be moved to E. C. Stoner (comicbook artist) or something of sorts. And leave E. C. Stoner for disambiguation. I do not think this EC Stoner is more famous than the other one, nor viceversa.--ReyHahn (talk) 17:05, 6 February 2024 (UTC)