Talk:East Bengal Ultras/GA4

GA Review

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Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 18:43, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Prose, POV, and coverage

Lead:

• the vocal supporters' group of an Indian football club, SC East Bengal, which competes in the ISL—the top tier football league in India.
  • Unless it is a group of something called "vocal supporters", I would suggest describing the enthusiasm of supporters in a later sentence.
    • here vocal refers to Football chant.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:07, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
      • I see. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I would suggest "of Indian football club SC East Bengal". This group is a supporter for this particular football club.

Supported club:

• I'm not sure what the best heading title for this section would be. Maybe just "SC East Bengal"?
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• "Association football" should be lowercase.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• In 1930, Mahatma Gandhi's Satyagraha swept over India and affected football - What is Satyagraha? It would be interesting to see how this caused the boycott of the CFL. Also, would it be better to say "Indian football was affected in 1930 by Mahatma Gandhi's Satyagraha"?
  • satyagraha = non-violence movement. so, football was a good medium for that. Indian football clubs vs English. Also it would be misleading to say Indian football, as back then football was 99% concentrated to Kolkata only. And even today its like that.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• In the midst of the disruption, Royal Regiment was declared First Division winners - There's a singular-plural disagreement here. This should either be "was declared First Division winner" or "were declared First Division winners".
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• A hand holding a flaming torch became the supporters' club's emblem and remains so in 2020 - The last part of the sentence is awkwardly phrased. There are two main ideas to this sentence: "A hand holding a flaming torch became the supporters' club's emblem" and "As of 2020, this icon is still the emblem of the supporters' club." Maybe it can be split that way.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Initial years: 2013–2016"

• denoting the fans were the club's "twelfth man". - I think you can say "denoting that" in this instance. Or saying "...indicating the fans were..."
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• the East Bengal Ultras displayed a 3D tifo, first ever in South Asia’s, - "South Asia" shouldn't be possessive, i.e. "first ever in South Asia".
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Growth of ultras culture: 2017–present:

• prompted a lot of discussion on fan forums - "a lot of discussion" is quite informal, I would just say "much discussion".
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• The group started with around 10 people - Should this be in the previous section?
  • Trying to say that at present its thousands, but initially just 10.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• To celebrate the club's centenary year in 2019, the Ultras organised an event called Tunes of Colony, which was held on 31 July[9] at the Sovabazar Natmandir temple; it was the first-ever chant-based musical show in Indian and South Asian Football.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • The word "year" in "centenary year" is redundant, I would just say "centenary".
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Should this sentence be split? The first part of the sentence, before the semicolon, is quite long already.
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:41, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • The word "football" in "South Asian football" should be lowercase.
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• The event was a hit with East Bengal fans. - How so?
  • As it was first live chant show.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:31, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
    • I see. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• ("Do you understand sir? Do I need to say more?") - Which language is this, by the way?
  • Bangla  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• I would recommend using {{multiple image}} to combine the tifo images.
  • The images are arranged according to the texts.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:38, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• On 4 December 2019, at a game against Real Kashmir that was the first game of their 2019–20 I-League campaign at the Kalyani Stadium, the East Bengal Ultras presented a 10,000 sq ft (930 m2) tifo—the largest in Indian football so far—in the form of a book showing five major achievements in the history of East Bengal; this tifo was featured in a December 2019 article in the United States-based media outlet The18
  • This should definitely be split into at least two sentences. The first part of the sentence is quite long-winded, and the entire sentence is one paragraph.
  • Furthermore, it can probably be reworded. In the first part of the sentence, I would relocate "a game against Real Kashmir" so that it comes before the comma. E.g. "At a game against Real Kashmir on 4 December 2019, the first game of their 2019–20 I-League campaign at the Kalyani Stadium, the East Bengal Ultras presented a 10,000 sq ft (930 m2) tifo, the largest in Indian football so far, showing five major achievements in the history of East Bengal."
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:38, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • this tifo was featured in a December 2019 article in the United States-based media outlet The18 - By the way, is this outlet notable?
    • we can say yes if we look at their FB page. also, getting featured by an foreign media is something ultra-rare w.r.t. indian football...  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
      • About your second point, I didn't realize that. It's OK for now, but I think in the future it may be reassessed if this outlet does not have an article in a few years. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

        • Epicgenius, ok  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  10:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

NRC controversy

@ArnabSaha: It has been a few weeks since I've looked at the nomination, sorry about that. I'm going to finish this quickly. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

• The incident led to controversy among groups both for and against the NRC. - I get what you mean, but:
  • Should it be "controversy between"? Or did each group have their own controversies? (In the second case, the current wording would be correct.)
    •  Done. It involved people/group supporting NRC and against NRC. (More details on what happened all over the country- CAA protests)  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  11:07, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I wonder if there are any specific examples.
    • There's no such specific examples. It mainly happened in social media, thats why the EBU released a statement on this.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  11:07, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Chants and slogans

• As of 2020, there are around 25 chants and slogans. - Usually you'd count in dozens (e.g. "around two dozen") or tens (e.g. "more than twenty"). I'm wondering if the exact number is known.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:48, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• "Dale Cavese" is one of the most famous tunes that became popular with the East Bengal Ultras. - Is this either one of the most famous tunes among the general public, or among other ultras groups? Or is "famous" being used as a point of comparison to something else?
  • This is tune is famous among the fan groups all over the world (source), including East Bengal fans. Just like it became popular all over the world, when it was introduced here, it became popular too.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  17:55, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

References

General:

• In general, make sure to go over the references and verify that the "author" is actually an author. For example, i doubt there is someone named "Sportstar, Team" (ref 17).
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  20:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• You can also check for missing dates of publication, but this is less major.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  20:06, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• I would avoid mentioning the website name, or even the website itself, in citation titles. E.g. ref 5 ("Corteo and Pyros : When East Bengal Ultras did a Legia Warsaw – Sportskeeda".) I would remove "Sportskeeda" and move that to the |work= field.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:56, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• For sources from Twitter and YouTube, you should note that the source is via Twitter or YouTube. They are marginally reliable for primary sources, but I would advise against using these if a better source is available.
  • No other sources available sadly. Actually these were added to show that the group was featured my international media.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  20:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
    • I see. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Specific:

• For ref 14 ("Eine Reise zum größten Derby Asiens: East Bengal gegen Mohun Bagan".) is there a translated title?
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• For ref 19 (কাঁচা খেউড়ের বদলে এখন চ্যান্ট হয়, গ্যালারি কালচার বদলেছি অনেক প্রতিঘাত পেরিয়েই".) is there a translated title?
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• Refs 35 and 37 ("East Bengal Ultras – Lorechi Onek Juddho". SoundCloud.) are exactly the same. While ref 35 is suitable for quoting the lyrics in the quote box, I don't know if ref 37 is reliable for the sentence "Allez Allez Allez" sung by Liverpool F.C. fans, which was itself adapted from "Un giorno all'improvviso" (originally "L'estate sta finendo") sung by the S.S.C. Napoli fans, was adopted into Bengali and became an instant hit among the club's supporters
  • Moved the citation above and combined them.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:53, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• Ref 36 (says, Jeff Debnath (8 February 2014). "Chants". East Bengal Ultras. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 29 January 2020.) seems to be from WordPress and may not be reliable. Epicgenius (talk) 16:22, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
  • This was the previous website of the group.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
    • Oh, OK. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

I did five reference spotchecks and didn't find anything wrong. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Images and copyright

• The majority of images are freely licensed, while the infobox image has a non-free use rationale.
• Copyright violation spotchecks came up clean. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Other issues raised in previous reviews

As there have been three previous nominations, I will take some time to look over the issues raised in the previous reviews, and see if they were resolved, before I put my own feedback. It seems that GA3 raised up some close paraphrasing issues. While that is not as big of a problem at this moment, there are a few sentences that still must be fixed. For instance:

• Article: At the opening match of the 2016 CFL Premier Division at the Kalyani Stadium, the East Bengal Ultras displayed South Asia’s first ever 3D tifo, which depicted an East Bengal player holding the CFL Trophy against the backdrop of the Kolkata skyline and the text Kolkata Amader ("Kolkata is ours").
  • Source: East Bengal Ultras created history in the 2016 CFL Opener in the Kalyani Stadium with India’s 1st Ever 3D Tifo which had a East Bengal Player holding the CFL Trophy in the backdrop of the Kolkata Skyline with a written slogan as ‘Kolkata Amader’ which simply means ‘Kolkata is ours’ due to theit commanding display in the Calcutta Football League.
• Article: These attracted coverage by foreign sports media such as Copa90, Ultras-tifo, Football Fans Asia, 11 Freunde, Exhale Sports and ultras groups of various football clubs because they created a new atmosphere in Indian football.
  • Source: The first big thing of 2017 was the Brilliant Smoke Show and another 3D Tifo against Bengaluru FC which attracted foreign Sports Medias such as Copa90, Football Fans Asia and Exhale Sports due to a never-seen atmosphere in Indian Football.

Once these issues are fixed, I'll look at this article from the beginning. Epicgenius (talk) 18:50, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Epicgenius,  Done. i hope its now corrected.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:40, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

ArnabSaha, all right. I will look more into detail shortly. Epicgenius (talk) 19:48, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

General comments

@ArnabSaha: nice work. It seems like both the issues I raised and the issues raised by the previous failed reviews have been resolved. I have a few additional comments:

• In "Growth of ultras culture", The group started with around 10 people and by 2019, they had expanded to thousands, including between 100 and 150 core members. - in the phrase "and by 2019, they had expanded to thousands" you can probably replace "and" with "but", or with "though", since this is a contrast.
• In "NRC controversy", Although the incident led to controversy between groups both for and against the NRC is a run-on sentence.

I do think this is almost ready for GA, except for these issues. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Epicgenius,  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:53, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Great. I'll pass this article now. Epicgenius (talk) 20:38, 16 February 2021 (UTC)