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GA Review

[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 17:55, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for your help. Caro de Segeda (talk) 19:48, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to review this article.

Summary

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a. (reference section):
    b. (citations to reliable sources):
    c. (OR):
    d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a. (major aspects):
    b. (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
    b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Review

[edit]
Initial comments - lead section
  • Green tickY The lead needs to be shortened, as per MOS:LEADLENGTH (“the lead should usually be no longer than four paragraphs”). As of 23 April, the article is 24,112 characters long, suggesting that the article’s lead should have no more than three paragraphs. Some of the comments below may not apply if the text is reduced as I have asked:
  • Green tickY Link linguist; railway engineer (Railway engineering); lexicon; Esperanto; Nazi.
  • Red XN De Wahl was born in Olwiopol (according to some sources in Bohopil, a town nearby) – needs to appear (and be cited) in the Biography section, rather than here.
Not yet done. AM
  • Introduce L. L. Zamenhof (‘the ophthalmologist L. L. Zamenhof’). Ditto Ric Berger; André Schild’.
  • Green tickY a.k.a. - consider replacing this abbreviation with the full phrase (see MOS:ABBR).
  • Green tickY Unlink Ukraine; grammar; World War II; Switzerland (MOS:OL).

More comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:06, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I am crossing out the ones that I have done. Caro de Segeda (talk) 20:04, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Ref 1 (In German personal names…) is a note, not a reference, and required a citation. I would put in a separate Notes section (followed by {{reflist|group=note}}), and include the now cited text as a note, using {{refn|1=xxx|group=note}}, where xxx is the text. Happy to do this for you if you wish.
Done. Citation not needed, as the text comes from a Wikipedia template. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:03, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY A minor point, but the prose can imo be improved by using a comma at (known as, and removing the brackets.
  • Green tickY Link Kherson.
  • Green tickY Consider amending then Saint Petersburg. Wahl studied there to something like, ‘then Saint Petersburg, where he studied’.
  • Green tickY he spent the remainder of his life until his death in can be reduced to ‘he died in’ without any loss of information.
  • Green tickY An early supporter of Esperanto – this new sentence does not make sense.
    • Sorry but I don't understand what you mean here. The phrase intends to say that he was a supporter of Esperanto since the moment the language was publicised, since its beginnings. How can I say that? --Caro de Segeda (talk) 08:27, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Something like 'A supporter of Esperanto, along with the ophthalmologist L. L. Zamenhof, he influenced the early work done on its grammar and vocabulary' would work, I think. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Wahl began a journey is idiomatic, and should be avoided. (MOS:IDIOM).
  • Green tickY Unlink World War II (MOS:OL).

It appears another editor is making extra work for us, but I am hoping the message sent to this editor will allow this review to continue smoothly. More comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 08:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Amitchell,
Sorry for causing any issues; Caro, not being a native speaker of English, asked me to revise the lead, which I did. In my view, the article needs some copyediting, so I started making some small changes - sorry for the error I made along the way. I'll stay out of the way until you've finished your review. Frzzl (talk) 10:10, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Frzzl: Hi, I now understand, if you wish I will treat you as a co-nominator, so please feel free if you wish to work with Caro de Segeda during the review. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 12:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your understanding; there are some references that need to be reformatted, so I'll get to work on that. Caro's the expert on the subject matter, so I won't add or remove any information. Frzzl (talk) 13:59, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
and...
[edit]
  • Green tickY Wahl spent - 'de Wahl spent'?
  • Green tickY Link ophthalmologist (Ophthalmology).
Refs/Bibliography
  • Green tickY Please note that I need to start checking the sources/citations, but the References and Bibliography sections are not yet in English, so I can't start. Please translate (or get translated) the two sections. (For more information, see WP:FQ (for more information about using non-English sources—an English translation helps), and WP:NONENGLISHTITLE (about using non-English words in articles).) Amitchell125 (talk) 14:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean with regards to the bibliography? Edgar de Wahl didn't write in English so it makes sense that the titles of his publications are not in that language. Is there anything we need to do regarding that? Caro de Segeda (talk) 06:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Example—the following source, shown below in its original form and how I would format it so that English readers can understand it. Other citation templates can be found here. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:09, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lumiste, Ülo; Võhandu, Leo (2007). "Kolmest Eestis loodud tehiskeelest ja nende loojatest" [About three artificial languages created in Estonia, and their creators]. Akadeemia (in Estonian). 216 (3). Tartu, Estonia: Estonian Writers' Union: 482–510.

OK, now I understand what you mean. Thanks for the explanation. --Caro de Segeda (talk) 06:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done Caro de Segeda (talk) 06:56, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
1.1 Ancestry
  • Green tickY Link manors (Estate (land)); railway engineer (Railway engineering).
  • Green tickY The coat of arms image should be moved to be in this section.
  • Green tickY What is an unregulated line?
  • Green tickY Why is (Haus Assick) mentioned?
  • Green tickY Consider not including dates such as (1841-1906) and (1845-1907)—here and elsewhere in the article—in my opinion they are not needed, and they clutter up the article with excessive detail.
  • Green tickY The paragraph beginning Edgar von Wahl's roots extended partly to England… can be edited out—it is excessively detailed for this article.
1.2 Childhood and youth
  • Green tickY Edgar von Wahl was born on August 23, 1867 only requires a single citation, as the information is purely factual.
  • Green tickY to Oskar von Wahl and Lydia Amalie Marie – is duplicated from the previous section, it only needs to be mentioned once.
  • Green tickY the Wahl had family - the Wahl family had’.
  • Green tickY Wahl learned several languages as a child and teenager. As a child, he had acquired knowledge of – consider simplifying to something like 'During his boyhood, Wahl learnt’.
  • Green tickY In addition to these, he was able to make himself understood in nine other languages - is this later on in life, or during his childhood?
  • Green tickY Text in Interlingue, such as the quote, needs to be included within a template: {{lang|ie|Ja in puerin età mi hat… }} (see Template:Interlanguage link, "ie" stands for Interlingue). The text will then appear in italics (Ja in puerin età mi hat…), which it should. All foreign text in the article should be treated in this way, with "eo" for Esperanto
  • Green tickY Oskar Paul Karl, who died as a baby in 1869 – is not needed here (infant mortality was common and so not notable).
  • Green tickY Link Interlingue; Gymnasium (Gymnasium (school)); diploma; substitute teacher.
  • Green tickY I would replace spent his formative years with 'grew up', to improve the prose. The link is not needed.
  • Green tickY I would use 'term' in place of semester (minor point).
  • Green tickY from St. Petersburg University is redundant, and should be deleted.
1.3 Military service
  • Green tickY Link Caribbean islands (List of Caribbean islands); reserve officer (Military reserve force); Tsarist-era officer's uniform (Imperial Russian Army).
  • Green tickY Michman – {{lang|ru|[[Michman]]}}.
  • Green tickY October 1905. However, he – consider amending to ‘October 1905. but’.
  • Green tickY of Olev Mikiver [et; sv], Estonian artist should read ‘of the Estonian artist Olev Mikiver [et; sv]’.
  • Green tickY closely in his youth – consider amending to ‘as a youth’.
  • Green tickY The caption should read ‘Wahl in a Russian Navy uniform in 1914’ (surname only, no full stop, and Russian Navy linked (Imperial Russian Navy).
  • Green tickY You need to be consistent throughout the article about referring to de Wahl, von Wahl, or Wahl'.
  • Green tickY Unlink Suomenlinna in the quote, as Sveaborg rebellion is linked later in the section (see also MOS:INTERNAL).
  • Green tickY Unlink First World War here and elsewhere (MOS:OL).
1.4 Tallinn 1894-1917
  • Green tickY Remove the link to Russian Empire, as it has already been linked.
  • Green tickY In the autumn of the same year – ‘That autumn’ sounds better.
  • Green tickY received the post of teacher of mathematics and physics – consider ‘worked as a mathematics and physics teacher’.
  • Green tickY in Tallinn is redundant text, as the name of the school explains that he worked in Tallinn.
  • Green tickYTallinn Cathedral School – ‘and the Tallinn Cathedral School'.
  • Green tickY Remove both links to World War I (MOS:OL).
  • Green tickY He continued to teach drawing – should read ‘He taught drawing’, as these schools have not already been mentioned in the article.
  • Green tickY It seems that the sentence beginning Wahl's teaching style… should form the start of a new paragraph.
  • Green tickY I would include the original Estonian text of the quote (Matemaatikat ja füüsikat õpetas veel Edgar von Wahl, endine mereväeohvitser, kellel oli alati varuks tabav märkus mõne sündmuse või isiku kohta. Ta oli kaunis räpakas füüsikakatsete korraldamisel: sageli murdusid riistad või purunesid klaasid. Tema suhtumine õpilastesse oli lihtne, mida kinnitab ka hüüdnimi Sass.), as well as the English translation, as the English seems mistranslated in places – dirty? ‘messy’ or 'disorganized’, surely! (I am a retired physics teacher myself, so know that physics is never called "dirty"…).
  • Green tickY Link linguistics; Tallinn Noble Club (Tallinna Aktsiaklubi [et] in the Estonian Wikipedia); pawnshop (Pawnbroker).
  • Green tickY(educator at St Peter's Royal School from 1906 to 1909) – consider leaving the brackets out (minor point).
  • Green tickY In addition to work as a teacher is redundant.
  • Green tickY council. In the same year, he – consider amending to ‘council, and’.
  • Green tickY the renaming of the city of Tallinn – it needs to be clearer what the official name of the city was at this time—Reval, or Tallinn?
  • Green tickY Kalyvan should be in italics.
  • Green tickYin elections is redundant text.
More comments to follow. AM
Thanks for all the feedback; am working through it presently. I havn't had a chance to look through #Occidental since I started helping with this, so if you'd like me to check it before you review, I can.
1.5 Life in independent Estonia
  • Green tickY Estonian and German are unneeded duplicate links.
  • Green tickY Amend the declaration of independence to ‘the Estonian Declaration of Independence' (linked to Estonian Declaration of Independence).
  • Green tickY had expressed – ‘expressed’.
  • Green tickY become a member of the law enforcement squad – ‘join the police’.
  • Green tickY I don’t think there’s any need to put the quote from the student (“Among those who wanted to make weapons…”) as a block quote, as he isn’t famous. It could simply be included as part of the paragraph above where it is, perhaps with the introduction ‘as recalled by a student’ (instead of by a student).
Apologies for not being clearer, I didn't mean to remove the quote altogether, just to not have it in a block under the text. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:19, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Link Estländische Wochenschau ({{Ill|Estländische Wochenschau|et}}).
  • Green tickY Link cosmography (is this word correct?—I didn’t know cosmography was ever taught in schools).
  • Green tickY bifurcated – ‘divided’ is better here.
  • Green tickY cottage – ‘cabin’ (linked to Cabin (ship)).
  • Green tickY Wahl was a headstrong character… - the text here needs copy editing to improve the English (something like ‘Wahl sometimes clashed with his colleagues. He openly expressed his intolerance of modern art during a visit to an art exhibition, after having been invited to it at the invitation of the school's art teacher. He compared modern art with communism.' I don’t think the quote that follows is needed (and it makes little sense as it stands)
  • Green tickY After his retirement, he – ‘He then’.
  • Green tickY especially artificial languages, which had become a personal affair since the days of St. Petersburg.- ‘in particular the creating of artificial languages, which had become a passion since his Saint Petersburg days’.
1.6 During World War II
  • Green tickY Unlink Estonia (MOS:OL).
  • Green tickY loved ones – ‘relatives’ or ‘family’.
  • Red XN As most of the article comes from the well-written corresponding article in the Estonian Wikipedia, you should use any links from it when no equivalent links in the English Wikipedia article exist. For instance, in this section, link relocation to Germany using {{Ill|Nachumsiedlung|et}}.
- Occidental, unic natural, vermen neutral e max facil e comprensibil lingue por International relations; Radicarium directiv del lingue International (Occidental) (Creation and introduction section).
- Max car donation (Spread section)
1.7 Last days and death
  • Green tickY Link philology.
  • Green tickY a second time – ‘for a second time’.
  • Green tickY Seewald's physicians – ‘The hospital staff at Seewald’ sounds better.
  • Green tickY at 3:00 PM – is excessively detailed.
  • Green tickY I would explain seigneurial cemetery in brackets, as the term may not be a familiar one to many readers.
2.1 Background
  • Green tickY Saint Petersburg is a duplicate link.
  • Green tickY recently created – ‘recently-created’.
  • Green tickY Through his father, who was his colleague, de Wahl met Waldemar Rosenberger sometime between 1887 and 1888, who was committed to Volapük at the time, so de Wahl initially adhered to Volapük. Needs copy editing.
  • Green tickY Who are Paul Ariste, Jaan Ojalo and Ludwik Zamenhof?
  • Green tickY It is said that he even traveled to Warsaw to visit Zamenhof. Why is this worth mentioning?
  • Green tickY Link Volapük; Esperanto.
  • Green tickYThe quotation that follows Paul Ariste suggests a reason... should be included in the text instead of being put in a blockquote.
  • Green tickY Consider amending A number of the reform proposals had come from de Wahl himself to something like ‘Wahl produced some of the proposals’.
  • Green tickY an "a priori" language – I’m unclear what this means, could it be explained in the text?
2.2 Creation and introduction
There is an article International auxiliary language, which suggests that At the same time, de Wahl developed the AULI (Auxiliari Lingue International, English: International auxiliary language), which was based on the Romance languages. has been mistranslated in some way. Perhaps it should say 'At the same time, de Wahl developed a new international auxiliary language, which was based on the Romance languages.' Amitchell125 (talk) 12:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Academia pro Interlingua – Discussiones should be in italics.
  • Green tickY the Russian artificial language – what language is being referred to here?
Looking at Ref 52 (Künzli), it seems that Die erste organisierte wissenschaftliche interlinguistische Vereinsarbeit wurde in Russland von der Gesellschaft für die internationale Sprache ´Kosmoglot(t)´ getätigt, deren Gründung noch in das Jahr has been misunderstood. I understand it can be paraphrased to 'The Society for the international language Kosmoglot(t) was founded in 1916'.' Amitchell125 (talk) 13:04, 1 May 2023 (UTC).[reply]
Yes, that's right - it was a society for auxiliary language creators, Edgar de Wahl was working on his own language called Auli at the time and other members were working on their own languages. I corrected that part to reflect this. Mithridates (talk) 07:57, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Link Hannover (spelt 'Hanover').
  • Green tickY I would simplify the founders of the association to ‘its founders’.
  • Green tickY in the society – which society?
  • Green tickY Ties were alsoalso is a redundant word, here and elsewhere in the section.
  • Green tickY In the first issue of the same magazine – ‘In its first issue’.
2.3 Spread
  • Link labor movements.
  • Green tickY Namely, - ‘The issue contained’.
  • Green tickY by the League of Nations. The League of Nations rejected the proposal. - ‘by the League. The proposal was rejected.’.
  • Green tickY the failure in the League of Nations – ‘this failure’.
  • Green tickY enthusiasts of Ido – it needs to be clearer why Ido is being mentioned here, having not been mentioned before.
  • Green tickY According to Paul Ariste - ‘According to Ariste’. This sentence requires some copy editing.
I still don't have any idea about what this sentence means. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:11, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY The caption should read ‘Von Wahl with Occidentalists in Vienna in 1927: from left to right Hanns and Johann Robert Hörbiger, Engelbert Pigal and von Wahl.’.
  • Green tickY magazine Cosmoglott - Cosmoglott is in italics, as well as Cosmoglotta.
  • Green tickY made presentations – 'spoke publicly’.
  • Green tickY a popularity comparable to that of – ‘the popularity of’.
  • Green tickY more international – ‘sound more international’?
  • Green tickY Who is Pekka Erelt?
  • Green tickY the Eastern bloc – which countries are being referred to here?
3.1 Family
  • Green tickY Remove the link to World War I.
  • Green tickY As his children were not notable in their own right, I wouldn’t clutter up the article with their dates.
  • Green tickY De Wahl's eldest sons had moved to Germany at the start of World War I and were serving in the German army in the war - ‘De Wahl's eldest sons moved to Germany at the start of World War I, where they served in the army’.
  • Green tickY disappeared in the war – ‘disappeared’.
  • Green tickY to other information – ‘to one source’.
  • Link Green tickY Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna (Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna of Russia (1890–1958)); German occupation (German occupation of Estonia during World War I); Bolsheviks; Tukums.
  • Green tickY Letonia – ‘Lativa’ in English.
  • Green tickY De Wahl's eldest son Johann's two sons, Volker (born 1935) and Asko (born 1937), live in Germany and participate in the activities of the Baltic Cavalry Association there. - this is off-topic and needs to be deleted.
  • Green tickY in various schools – is redundant.
  • Green tickY her daughter, Veronika, was born – ‘their daughter Veronika was born’.
  • Green tickY De Wahl's second marriage lasted until 1941, when Agnes was arrested and shot by the NKVD - ‘Agnes was arrested and shot by the NKVD in 1941’.
  • Green tickY Is more known about the tragic circumstances of his second wife’s death?
Looks like Cosmoglotta in 1946 said that she disappeared in 1941" during the "transportationes del popules" i.e. the forced migrations. They probably didn't know the full details that shortly after the war but does coincide datewise and situationwise with the above.
https://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?aid=e0g&datum=1946&page=32&size=45 Mithridates (talk) 17:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for this Mithridates, I think it's work including. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:45, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
3.2 Hobbies
  • Green tickY Only one hobby is mentioned, so I would amend the title to something like ‘Passion for sailing’.
  • Green tickY Link sailing (Sailing#Recreation); Estonian Imperial Maritime Yacht Club {{Ill|Estonian Imperial Maritime Yacht Club|et|Eestimaa Merejahtklubi}}; yearbook; ketch.
4 Works
  • Green tickY This section is uncited and contains no links. It’s not clear to me how I can verify the text. Is there is list of work published somewhere?
  • Green tickY The section contains a mixture of different version of his name, which needs attending to.
6 Notes
  • Green tickY de Wahl – needs to with a template ({{lang|ie|de Wahl}}), here and elsewhere in the article where the spelling of is name in Interlingue occurs.
My apologies, the template needs 'italics=no' added, I will do this for you. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:35, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Note b requires a citation.
    • It has three.
  • Green tickY Note d requires both a full stop and a citation.
    • It has both.
Caro and I, in conjunction with other Interlingue speakers, came to the conclusion that "de Wahl" would be the version used throughout the article, so I think the first point would be unnecessary. I've reformatted note b as a {{lang|ie}} template however.
7 References
  • Green tickYRef 1 (Stavenhagen) is not cited in the same way as the other sources.
My apologies for not being clearer. Ref 1 is a book, so it should be listed with the other books in the Sources section, and Ref 1 written as {{Sfn|Stravenhagen|1900|p=57}}. This also applies to the following refs: Ref 11 (Stavenhagen); Ref 17 (Mikiver); Ref 22 (Veiderma); Ref 42 (Kivimäe); Ref 53 (Dulichenko); } Ref 66 (de Wahl); and Ref 67 (de Wahl). Amitchell125 (talk) 18:42, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've done the Stravenhagen, Mikiver and Dulichenko - I think as the de Wahl book refs are just showing their existence, they shouldn't be put with the other sources - I can reformat them as {{Cite book}}s if you think that would be better. Frzzl (talk) 19:01, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please reformat them to keep the style consistent. AM
  • Green tickY Ref 3 (Barandovská-Frank) is written in Esperanto. The citation should say ‘(in Esperanto), as the references need to be done in a consistent way. You need to go through and amend any other foreign language references in a similar way.
Looks good now. AM
  • Green tickY Ref 4 (Mäeorg & Rahi-Tamm) cites more that one page, and so the citation should read ‘pp. 307, 309’. You need to check the other references say pp if more than one page is cited.
Ref 4 is done, but Ref 10 (Mäeorg & Rahi-Tamm) needs doing as well. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:45, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Always miss one haha, done. Frzzl (talk) 19:01, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Ref 6 (von Harpe) - lk 35–43 needs to be translated into English, here and elsewhere in this section.
  • Green tickY Ref 9 (Von Hansen) has no author or year of publication, both are need for the references in this section to have a consistent style. You need to go through all the references to ensure they have an author and date where applicable. Band 1 needs to say Volume 1, here and elsewhere if it occurs.
Ref 22 (Veiderma) needs the year (2000). Amitchell125 (talk) 18:50, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Frzzl (talk) 19:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This section needs more more than the above comments state. I'll come back after the comments above it have been checked through.

A few more comments...

Done. Frzzl (talk) 19:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

8 Bibliography

[edit]

This section looks mostly OK - I'll adjust it a little to save you a bit of time. AM

A few further comments....

(Childhood section)

  • Green tickY Edgar de Wahl (born von Wahl) - his full name as given in the lead should be written here.

(Last days and death section)

  • Green tickY Link Pajus in the caption. I'm also unclear why the spelling differs from the article's title.
  • Green tickY the de Wahl family - presumably this should read 'the von Wahl family', as the family is being named, not Edgar.
  • The last sentence is not cited. (Added + some ILL Frzzl (talk) 18:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC))[reply]

(Spread section)

On hold

[edit]

I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 7 May 10 May to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. I'll write Green tickY where issues are sorted, and put a small red cross (Red XN where works still needs to be done. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 17:18, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Amitchell,
Caro is currently ill, so I'm pretty much being de facto nominator. I've addressed all points save for the "Works" section, which I think should be left to Caro when he is better. In the meantime, would you mind casting an eye to my changes - I think it should be satisfactory?
Kind regards, Frzzl (talk) 09:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Frzzl and Caro de Segeda: Get well soon Caro! I will keep going through the changes, and if necessary extend the deadline. I am also allowed to make changes myself if they are marginal (as per WP:GAN/I#R3). Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 10:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Right, I think I have now addressed every point raised - are you ready to check the references? Frzzl (talk) 18:23, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for letting me know, busy day ahead, but I'll make a start today. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Frzzl, Caro de Segeda, and Lixive: Refs now done, I'm holding fire until the useful discussion on the introduction, etc., initiated by Lixive, is concluded. The deadline for completing the review comments can of course be extended if it needs to be. Thanks to all for your work on this interesting article. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:52, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Frzzl, Caro de Segeda, and Amitchell125: I am basically done with my changes for now. To the best of my knowledge it should now be factually correct to the extent that can be ascertained from secondary sources. For grammar and other such things, feel free to edit it as you wish. If you have any questions or comments about my changes or what could be done more then I hope I have enough knowledge to respond adequately.

One thing I'm not really sure about at the moment regarding reference formatting is the book Erlebtes Livland. Ideally, there should be references to four different chapters by three different authors from the same book but then again, it is also possible to ignore the fact that the book has chapters from different authors. If so then the citation should contain only the book title (at the moment it also contains the title of one of the chapters). This would be easy to fix but perhaps the easiest way is not the best option? --Lixive (talk) 18:28, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work on this. The best way in these cases is to cite individual chapters with their authors. However, such a way is not GA, it only needs to be that a reader can identify the source used. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:33, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the work Lixive. I removed the specific chapter from the general citation. Amitchell - where do we go from here? Frzzl (talk) 19:51, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've extended the deadline for a few more days, but after then will be unavailable until the beginning of June. Are you and Caro OK with all the recent amendments before I continue with the review? Amitchell125 (talk) 06:21, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've done some copyediting, and I think for the most part everything is now in good shape. Hopefully we have plain sailing now that Lixive's finished their work. Frzzl (talk) 12:08, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Final comments

[edit]

These have crept in, having already been sorted. No worries.

Lead section
  • Unlink Estonia, Ukraine, Switzerland (MOS:OL).
  • creator of Interlingue - Interlingue is a duplicate link.
  • 1939-41 - '1939-1941'.
Childhood and youth
  • The first sentence is too long, and needs splitting.
  • Comma after moved to Tallinn.
  • Ja in puerin età... - looking again, I don't think these quotations are now needed in the original language, I would only keep the English translations (here and later in the article).
Military service
  • Russian is a duplicate link.
  • de Wahl travelled - 'he travelled' sounds better imo.
Tallinn 1894-1917
  • during his time in - 'by his'?
  • In the caption, I would replace many years during his life with 'for many years'.
  • Put the citations in numerical after global developments. (not GA).
  • escape: - there should be a semi-colon here.
  • instead is redundant.
  • also - occurs three times outside the quote, and in each case it is redundant.
Life in independent Estonia
  • As recalled - 'This was recalled'?
  • Eha street - 'Eha Street'.
  • among students - 'by his students'.
  • Another unneeded also.
During World War II
  • but which had been caught - 'that were'.
  • including his archive, which he had wished to preserve by staying in Estonia, - 'and archive collection' (so not duplicating information which appears earlier in the article).
Last years and death
  • august - 'August'.
  • linguistics is a duplicate link.
  • de Wahl's remains - 'his remains' sounds better imo.
Background
  • the early e?
  • in 1894; - full stop needed here.
Creation and introduction
  • This section has two sandwiched images (see MOS:SANDWICH). As a suggestion for avoiding this issue, most of the text in the symbol's caption could be moved into the text of the article, and the symbol's image size could be reduced (to upright=0.5).
Spread
  • Another case of sandwiching, which I would avoid by starting a new paragraph after During these times..., so that the lower image can be moved down a bit.
  • Unlink Switzerland (MOS:OL).

Mostly minor changes. Amitchell125 (talk) 20:25, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All done - I have slight disagreements on two points: a) I think "As recalled" sounds better than "This was recalled", and b) The symbol looked comically small with upright=0.5, so I made it 0.75. Hopefully sounds OK Frzzl (talk) 22:19, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Passing

[edit]

All good now, congratulations on getting the article to GA. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 06:13, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for your help, Amitchell. We couldn't have done it without you :) Caro de Segeda (talk) 07:03, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]