Talk:Effect of Brexit on Gibraltar

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Error[edit]

'This meant that Gibraltar was the only British Overseas Territory in the European Union (EU) and uniquely it has the right to vote in EU elections and in referenda.[1]'

This comment seems to suggest that Gibraltar has a unique right amongst British Overseas Territories to vote in all referendums the UK may hold. However that right was only granted for one particular referendum about the EU(as Gibraltar is in the EU). If the UK were to have a referendum tomorrow on the voting age for example Gibraltar would not be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.216.24 (talk) 15:57, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

European air traffic agreement[edit]

What about the European air traffic agreement which for Gibraltar considerations is blocked by United Kingdom ? I did not see this topic in this article while it appears a newspaper article deals with it: http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/04/13/actualidad/1492074459_963282.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.199.96.187 (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 May 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOVED.(non-admin closure) Winged Blades^Godric 08:04, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar after Brexit → Effect of Brexit on Gibraltar – The current title is kind of vague and informal. I've thrown out one possibility but am open to others. We could also do plural "Effects", or something completely different. --BDD (talk) 15:41, 5 May 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. TheSandDoctor (talk) 03:28, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Given the content of the lead paragraph, and the article as a whole, "Gibraltar after Brexit" is more apt than "Effect/s of Brexit on Gibraltar". The issues involved are not well enough covered by "Effect/s of...", such as the position of the Crown and UK government under the constitution, and Spain's ongoing claims that may continue unresolved indefinitely. Qexigator (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So do you see this as more of a general history article, like "History of Gibraltar (2017–present)"? --BDD (talk) 21:01, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No: focussed on the part of the general "History of Gibraltar (2017–present)" that is concerned with Brexit issues as these relate to Gibraltar, while the general history of Gibraltar after 2017 will be in the Gibraltar article (Modern history section). Qexigator (talk) 06:53, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Gibraltar after Brexit - does this start now, or when Brexit is complete in 2019, either way, at what date does the article end ? Effect of Brexit on Gibraltar is probably better. How about Gibraltar and Brexit - Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 17:23, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

covers the period from March 2017 and concerns the after effect of the Referendum on UK membership of the European Union on Gibraltar. Gibraltar's position during the process of British withdrawal from the European Union ("Brexit") presents unique issues per first sentence.[1] Qexigator (talk) 17:51, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Seems to make sense JASpencer (talk) 18:35, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support. "Gibraltar after Brexit" implies to me "History of Gibraltar from March 2017", but the article is really about the specific effects of Brexit, current and ongoing and future. It's different. Herostratus (talk) 03:36, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Gibraltar Parliamentary approval needed?[edit]

Does the Withdrawal Agreement need to be passed not only in Westminster but also in the Gibraltar parliament? I think not?----Bancki (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 does not extend to Gibraltar. Section 24(3) is the only part mentioning Gibraltar and this subsection only provides amendments by regulation of legislation applicable in Gibraltar relating to European Parliamentary elections.----Bancki (talk) 15:28, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Post Brexit Agreement Questions[edit]

Article says "Gibraltar (air)ports become entry points of the Schengen area, under responsibility of Spain". Does this mean, Spanish authorities will be employed in Gibraltar ports? Would they have power to return British citizens if they decide - such as if British passengers doesn't have return ticket or they don't have enough funds for their stay? UK citizens have right to settle and work in Gibraltar but not in Schengen zone. Now Gibraltar is in Schengen, do UK citizens need visa to stay more than 90 days in 6 months or to be able to work? If this agreement doesn't affect UK citizens, then doesn't it create a situation where UK citizens can flaut schengen rules if they wish? Baloglu (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 02:39, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar is not (yet) in Schengen. Yes, there is an in-principle agreement that it will join, and yes, this should be noted, even if we don't know the details. Ben Aveling 05:20, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is poor and confused. I would delete it rather than leave as is[edit]

Parts of this article are in the future tense when the events are already history. Anybody looking for enlightenment is likely to be confused. IF no one is motivated to rewrite it (and in ny view it needs heavy edits), I would delete TGcoa (talk) 14:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some parts do need an update, yes, like every other article, but that's no reason to delete a perfectly relevant entry. I strongly oppose deletion.--Megustalastrufas (talk) 11:01, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar citizenship?[edit]

I have added a clarify tag because afik there is no such thing as "Gibraltar citizenship". See Gibraltar#Citizenship: they are British citizens full stop. So in what practical way is someone born in Bristol and resident in Gibraltar any different from someone born there and living there? (Or even born there and living in Bristol.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:49, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this is the status that BIL misunderstood:

Blue Civil Registration cards are issued by HM Government of Gibraltar to British nationals resident in the Overseas Territory who have not yet qualified for full residence.
— European Scrutiny Committee meeting with blue card holders

I am surprised that BIL misunderstood Sir William's speech, as it seems pretty clear to me that it does not suggest that they might be time-limited for stays in Gib:

I am concerned that what has been announced will not allow those who hold blue residency cards to cross into Spain relatively unhindered as they have done in the past. Schengen border controls on Gibraltar’s soil could mean that blue card holders become subject to the EU’s 90/180-day rule and, soon, the EU’s entry/exit system.
— Hansard Volume 747: debated on Monday 11 March 2024 4:14pm

I assume good faith but it is difficult to misunderstand this as BIL did. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry that I mistunderstood, but it was a little hard to understand as I don't know the rules, and media articles about the discussion and government info about the blue card weren't clear either. It is written in British nationality law that there are British Overseas citizenships which is also unclear what people actually have. I am pleased that someone with more knowledge improved the text instead of just deleting which is common on Wp. I would also wish that you read this media article and explain what it says, for example the sentence "But assuming full Schengen Area rules are applied, British people travelling for work or study may need visas." --BIL (talk) 17:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that there is a silly amount of "fog of war" about and a lot of deliberate misdirection, so it is easy to misconstrue. The Independent story is click bait but it is the irresponsible minister who to blame. Right now, we don't know what will happen or how the Schengen rules will be applied. WP:CRYSTAL applies and we shouldn't report such idle speculation as fact. Best to wait until we have an agreement in place. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And Gibraltarians are British citizens, not "British overseas". Citation is at Gibraltar#Citizenship. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:58, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to suggest you with your superior knowledge to write what a "blue card" is and if there are other identity cards, in Gibraltar identity card. It seems to be a different card to what "proper Gibraltarians" possess. Please include a link to a correct reference since there are contradictory descriptions. It looks like being a change after Brexit, so old sites contradicts new sites. These are some links: [2] [3]--BIL (talk) 18:59, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely no superior knowledge! I just happen to have been following the fall-out from the Government's "act in haste, repent at leisure" / "it'll be alright on the night" approach to Brexit, so I have learned to verify everything. People like Cash seem genuinely amazed that if you choose a relationship with the EU such as it has with Mexico, that you will get treated like a Mexican. It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that "take back control" cuts both ways. Anyway, the 2022 "Summary of Meeting" with Cash's European Scrutiny Committee definitely refers to cards held by non-domiciled residents as "blue cards" (and since they were the complainants, they should know), but the Century21Gibraltar and https://www.lawnews.co.uk/international/which-documents-do-you-need-to-cross-between-spain-and-gibraltar/ both say that blue cards are for EU nationals (who should have no issues whatever in crossing into Spain) but magenta for non-dom UK nationals. So it really seems like the ESC's Meeting Summary has got the colour wrong. But I'll leave a note at Talk:Gibraltar identity card to ask if anyone can clear up the confusion. Meanwhile, I have removed the detail of the card colour from the article. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:12, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article in the Gib Chronicle might help clear things up: https://www.chronicle.gi/uk-move-on-eu-id-cards-triggered-passport-stamps-for-gib-blue-card-holders-govt-says/ Gibraltarians and British permanent Gib residents have a red ID card. Resident EU citizens (including British citizens resident pre-Brexit) have a blue Civilian registration card. Non permanent British residents with a card issued after Brexit have a magenta civil registration card. (As far as I understand...) Tammbeck^talk 21:08, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is a very clear explanation. But it raises another question: the article as it stands describes UK nationals who are resident in Gib (with old blue or new magenta cards) but not legally domiciled there as "temporarily resident". Is that reasonably accurate? (without getting into the details of domicile law which is a legal minefield). --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think "temporarily resident" is reasonably accurate. I certainly can't propose a better wording. Tammbeck^talk 00:07, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only alternative I could think of is "non-domiciled resident" which is a bit prolix. Let's leave it as "temporary" until someone complains. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]