Talk:Elegant Gothic Aristocrat

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i removed the db-spam notice because this looks legit from third-party sources, and also was added at the same time as several other styles five months ago to the japanese fashion article by an editor who seems to know what s/he's doing. See diff. Calliopejen1 01:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You've removed my db-spam tag on Elegant Gothic Aristocrat saying that it is a real fashion. If you look at the article carefully you will see that it contradicts the japanese fashion page. Here it says the "elegant gothic aristocrat" specifically refers to "a line of Aristocrat fashion-style clothing created by Japanese musician and fashion designer Mana for his store, Moi-même-Moitié."

The main Japanese fashion article describes "The style of Elegant Gothic Aristocrat is based on the concept of androgyny and often has identical outfits for both men and women. The clothing is limited to black, white and dark colors, and the main image is founded on elegance and simplicity where the clothing lines are usually simple and tight, with pants or long skirts that stand in contrast to the Lolita style. Dark, heavy makeup may be worn by both sexes." No mention of Moi-Meme-Moitie is used. moreoever the inclusion of a promotional Jpeg indicates the article is spam since fair use only allows such images when the article is ABOUT THE PRODUCT. So while Elegant Gothic Aristocrat may very well be a legitimate style of fashion. This wiki article is clearly intended to make the reader think it is a specific product of moi-meme-moitie.

I'm removing all brand specific information. And the jpeg image since it can not be used under fair use since this is NOT an article about the product depicted in the image. It is an article about a fashion style, and presumably as a notable fashion style it would be easy enough to snap a photo of someone WEARING it, and not require a copywritten product picture. TheDarknessVisible 18:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From some quick googling though, it looks like the look is basically derived from this one brand's clothing. Here's one wp:rs that seems to indicate that: [1] and one not-so-reliable (but seemingly independent) source that suggests the same thing in clearer terms ("b. Elegant Gothic Aristocrats (EGA) ONLY MOITIE OR THINGS THAT LOOK LIKE MOITIE. YOU WILL BOTHER JAPANESE LOLITA AND ME IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THIS.").[2] See also [3].

Obviously the picture had to go though, I agree with you there.

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_Fashion#Aristocrat for some info -- there it says the style is just called aristocrat and the brand is elegant gothic aristocrat, though they're confused by westerners? Not sure if this is right. If it is, maybe info on the elegant gothic aristocrat brand should be merged into Aristocrat, because it seems at least like a notable brand within that style. 140.247.250.128 20:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aristocrat (fashion) used to be an article on the exact same product. Including the exact same promotional jpeg image. look at the history.TheDarknessVisible 05:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Even should this be written to focus on a particular brand, it is not written in the style of an advertisement for that brand, I am with Jen on this one. Let's work it out before stuff is wholesale removed like that. Chris 04:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Its not written like an advertisement, because I fixed it. The burdon on keeping information on wiki is on the editor who wants to keep it. Japanese Fashion points to this page as if its a generic name for a fashion. I suggest that if you want to document a specific product line of the company called Moi-même-Moitié that the proper place is in the [[[Moi-même-Moitié]] article. the [[[Moi-même-Moitié]] is very short and can take ALL of this product line information.TheDarknessVisible 05:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding pictures of someone wearing it - here's one released under CC license: http://moixmemexmoitie.deviantart.com/#/d57pr88

Dead links[edit]

The link "www.tokyopop.com article" is now dead, their in-house search engine doesn't find "Gothic Lolita Girl", and the Internet Archive doesn't seem to have a copy either (I'll check again in six months). Anyone know where there's a copy we can point to? --Vrmlguy (talk) 22:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]