Talk:Elizabeth Birch

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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"over her dead body"[edit]

I have removed the famous passage where Birch is alleged to have said etc. etc. "over her dead body", since there are serious problems with the sourcing. The only possibly reliable source is this article, which cites no sources though it links to a blog we can't place all that much faith in. The other two links are dead. I've looked all over for a better source, or a source that has commentary on it, but to no avail. We need better sourcing than this one article for such a strong claim. Pinging involved editors Reyne2, Crimson1636, 4.14.233.42. Drmies (talk) 21:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Drmies After some googling, some more reliable sources I found: Orlando Weekly [1], Huffington Post [2], American Prospect [3], WHYY-FM [4]. Is that sufficient? 2601:647:4C01:62B3:BDA0:4CB5:34F0:8A54 (talk) 16:50, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I looked at all of them. As far as I'm concerned, all of them fall into the news category, and none of them actually claim that "they were there", so to speak. For instance, this is from an alternative weekly, the Orlando Weekly, which for the quote cites nothing whatsoever; the editorial in HuffPo (HuffPo being already suspect enough to warrant scrutiny for an RS) links to this page with nothing, from some "Edge Media Network"; and the editorial/opinion from The American Prospect links to, first of all something dead, but a search of the WBEZ website brings us here, where the "dead body" is referenced to...guess what. So again, I'm having to go no on all of them. Drmies (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit unrealistic to expect article authors mentioning events decades prior to have personally experienced said events. And requiring eyewitness reports in reliable sources is frankly not realistic for many LGBT news events prior to the turn of the millennium. You also have not explained why you disagree with WHYY, a regional public news media, as a reliable source.

Drmies In addition, it looks like your specific concern is regarding this quotation in particular, but for some reason, you have also removed any mention of Elizabeth Birch's involvement in excluding gender identity from ENDA. The fact that under Elizabeth Birch, the HRC fought for excluding gender rights from ENDA [by specifically excluding trans organizations from their decision-making process] is a documented fact that the modern HRC has apologized for. Here's[[5]] an eyewitness report from a book by Riki Wilchins, for instance. Would it be an acceptable compromise to keep the rest of the passage, and perhaps mention that she has been alleged to make the quote [unless a better source turns up] without passing judgment on the veracity? The fact that multiple reliable sources have used it should at least be indication that the allegation is somewhat common and thus worthy of inclusion. Reyne2 (talk)

For the third time[edit]

For the third time, I corrected the libelous material in this article on Elizabeth Birch, falsely claiming that she was opposed to transgender inclusion in HRC's work when she led the organization as Executive Director. That information is entirely false. It was under Birch's leadership, in fact, that HRC became transgender-inclusive, by formally adding gender identity and expression, and transgender people, to its work and mission, by recruiting new transgender staff and volunteer leaders -- for the first time in the organization's history, and across other measures. There are a handful of activists who apparently want to settle a score with her and who insist on rewriting history, but the history and timing and facts are clear, and verifiable. HRC went from a lesbian and gay civil rights organization to a fully LGBT rights organization thanks to, and not despite, Elizabeth's trans-inclusive leadership. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LGBTQhistorybuff (talk • contribs) 02:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Elizabeth_Birch. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:36, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]