Talk:Emma Blackery/Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2014

Please change the subscriber count from 775,000 to over 800,000 CommanderOfPenguins (talk) 21:58, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Done I updated the views count to over 55 million while I was at it. —C.Fred (talk) 22:05, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Editing

Whenever I try to edit Emma Blackerys Wikipedia page to make he information more accurate I am accused of vandalism and I do not understand it PuffyPanda (talk) 03:40, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@PuffyPanda: None of your edits are productive, which is why you have been repeatedly warned. In this edit you made some wordsmithing changes but provided no references. While that section generally needs references there's no reason to let your edit stand. In this edit you remove sourced content about Blackery's Google+ video and added some unsourced content about "living like a Sim." In this edit you not only repeated your previous edit after having been warned, but you introduced at least one typo and some unsourced folderol like "During the web series she gave her advice about self love and accepting yourself." Please. That sounds like ad copy. I'm guessing you're a fan of the subject and you think it would be neat to write stuff. You would be mistaken. In closing, we cannot have you editing Wikipedia in such a manner. Chris Troutman (talk) 04:34, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

10 Albums That Changed My Life!💿

Actually the page is not semi-protected, but the edit filter affects only not logged-in contributors when they try to use emoji. Within references it makes no sense to clobber the "correct" title, please update…

old

{{YouTube|to4vOb08s8c|10 Albums That Changed My Life!}}

new

{{YouTube|to4vOb08s8c|10 Albums That Changed My Life!💿}}

Cf. Wikipedia:Edit filter/False_positives/Reports#193.96.224.64. –2A03:2267:2:0:FCED:723D:BF23:6FD (talk) 12:11, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

2A03 - Sorry If I sound dense but what does this one emoji achieve ? .... Anyone coming across "10 Albums That Changed My Life!" would realise it's obviously music-related so I don't quite understand the point of including this emoji?, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 14:29, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Just spotted it's the title of her video - I still don't see the point to it but shall leave this unanswered incase others disagree. –Davey2010^Talk 14:32, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Article is no longer protected. We don't need to include the emoji in the title of the reference. Fish+Karate 11:50, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm fine with that result because I actually dislike emoji not guaranteed to work on older platforms. Thanks, it only upset me that an anti-vandal edit filter tried to decide what is or isn't a correct title in a reference. –193.96.224.66 (talk) 05:56, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Current and former channels

Admittedly the intro of the #YouTube section is too minimalistic, but claiming that there is only one active channel now without any source is no improvement:

• The VEVO channel isn't "inactive", a new video was added on 9 August 2018 before the Villains Tour 2018. Unsurprisingly there was no newer music video while she released no newer music.
• The inactive emmaforthewin channel has a "joined 2009" on it's about sub-page, it's her oldest still existing channel: Actually her second channel, unless I missed something, and the reference is good for "YouTuber since 2009" (or similar) statements.
• The newest video on Vloggery was added seven months ago, and "possibly maybe"/"probably maybe" (Björk vs. Blackery) she won't use it anymore. But enwiki is no WP:CRYSTALBALL, without reliable third party sources we're not supposed to make up "alternative facts" out of thin air, and definitely not in a biography. On a bio a self-published source (by the person described in the bio) can be good enough; OTOH everything  needs a source.

–84.46.52.165 (talk) 16:04, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Update: The Joined  timestamps shown on a channel's About  page are useless. She stated that the now dead PinkFluffyHatTime was her 1st channel, followed by a now inactive 2nd Joined 29 Jul 2011  TheseSilentSeas, and a now also inactive 3rd Joined 4 Feb 2009  EmmaForTheWin.^{So when are you gonna delete THIS channel? on YouTube}
I'll replace #3 by #2 in the #YouTube section; CamelCase by me, for upper case I'd need a VM/370 /dev/pun with virtual punched cards. – #TheFartOfNoise^{no offence on YouTube}, 84.46.53.168 (talk) 23:32, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

@82.15.21.148: Presumably you're right, but without reference it's not obvious, or whatever passes as clear enough on a WP:BLP, suggestion:

{{As of|since=y|2018|05|12}} she hasn't posted on this channel.

–193.96.224.66 (talk) 04:52, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Second-wave feminism

@AusLondonder: Category:British feminists needs some source, categories are no bullshit bingo. I'd know exactly how to support this claim for, say, Madonna (quote: bad-ass feminist) or Sasha Grey (quote: post-modern feminist), but found so far nothing quotable in about 200 videos supporting it here. –84.46.53.230 (talk) 10:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Removed until somebody offers a reason why this category should be here, and Madonna said bad, not bad-ass. –2A03:2267:2:0:B84C:2193:8951:3E9D (talk) 15:01, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

That's on the border to misleading, all those 84.46.*.* IPv4s and the 2A03:2267:... IPv6s (sometimes degenerating into a 193.whatever IPv4) were the same user.^[1] –84.46.53.206 (talk) 21:28, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

EssexLive (red link, but used as source on enwiki) featured 38 local heroines on International Women's Day in 2019. The entry for Blackery was a link to an article published before the Villains tour:^[2] Very useful here, but more a case of patriotism than of feminism. –84.46.52.217 (talk) 22:10, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Found "a thoughtful, funny, ferocious feminist unafraid of having an opinion" in a The Daily Dot WCW quote, not good enough for a cat before Leia. Besides 60+ guys trying to overrule her own judgement could infuriate her (references on demand, it was in the audience stats and at least two other videos, 36+ is strictly out.) –84.46.52.44 (talk) 05:50, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

"‘Villians’ strikes us as being a bit of a feminist album" by Lisa Hafey was always the best Villains review, not yet evaluated:^[3] I'd love to know how Emma reacted to my favourite riot grrrl John Oliver yesterday:^[4] –84.46.53.98 (talk) 11:49, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Total views

The {{infobox YouTube personality}} claims 157.5 million views combined as of 13 January 2018. Checking that I get 143.0 + 4.1 = 147.1 millions (lede: main + VEVO) plus 8.8 + 0.7 + 0.1 = 9.6 millions (vloggery + emmaforthewin + another inactive) for a total of 147.1 + 9.6 = 156.7 millions as of today.

This "negative" number of views in 2018 suggests that the article should use an infobox for musicians, with vocal type + range etc. (see #Photos), and that the moving targets "subscribers" + "views" should be limited to the main + VEVO channel in the lede. "Official" achievements like 100,000 or 1,000,000 subscribers can be moved to / noted in the #YouTube section. € 0,02: –84.46.52.107 (talk) 13:24, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Remotely related issue. –84.46.53.198 (talk) 10:12, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Emma Blackery
Blackery performing at the Manchester Arena, 2016
Background information
Birth name	Emma Louise Blackery
Born	(1991-11-11) 11 November 1991 Basildon, Essex, England
Genres	Pop
Occupation(s)	Singer-songwriter, YouTuber, record producer
Instrument(s)	Guitar, Ukulele
Years active	2012 (2012)–present
Labels	RWG Records
Website	Emma Blackery/Archive 1's channel on YouTube

Sanity check of {{Infobox musical artist}}:

Lost info in {{Infobox YouTube personality}}:

| views              = 157.5 million views (combined)
| nationality        = English
| residence          = [[Brighton, East Sussex]], England
| education          = [[Bromfords School]]<ref name="stripped" />
| website            = {{URL|emmablackery.com}}
| subscribers        = 1.4 million subscribers
| network            = [[Maker Studios]]
| gold_year          = 2015
| stats_update       = 13 January 2018
| silver_button      = yes
| gold_button        = yes

Apparently good enough, the gold button can be covered in the prose. I don't get why the infobox for musicians doesn't cover nationality + residence + education. –84.46.52.182 (talk) 10:42, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Update 1: Maker Studios needs a reference: I've "parked" it in #See also for a later clean-up. Views + subscribers are covered in the lede, no loss in a transition to {{Infobox musical artist}}. For a singer I wonder why there is no mezzo-soprano or vocal range etc., but I can't judge it, and the only "references" I know are fan videos. Some silver button is presumably irrelevant in presence of a gold button, but the latter has to be covered with a reference or a {{fact}} in the prose.

Ditto the education blurb (reference exists), for the residence I anyway assume that it's obsolete, and she carefully avoids to spill details. I'll implement that soon, less places to update unclear WP:STATS should be an improvement. –84.46.52.182 (talk) 11:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Update 2: Education saved in #Personal life, gold button saved in #YouTube (2015), infobox swapped. –84.46.52.182 (talk) 12:00, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Update 3: Revelmode belonged to Maker Studios as explained on PewDiePie, it needs no further reference, all listed together in See also and Category:Revelmode people. –84.46.52.214 (talk) 11:33, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Update 4: Nobody reverted the infobox so far, or IOW, not all further minor facts on Emma Blackery justify yet another primary video source, unless somebody asks and no better source exists: Trying it for Tessa Violet in #Personal life.^[5] Some YT algorithm just recommended THIS video for me, stupid bot. –84.46.52.31 (talk) 15:46, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Update 5: New counters for two songs, edit summary s/1,600,000/1.7 million/, s/1,250,000/1.27 million/, can we now PLEASE remove these silly WP:STATS? "My thoughts on Google+" (2013) is at almost 4.0 million and NOT counted here. Should be WP:NOTSTATSBOOK, sorry. –84.46.52.26 (talk) 19:40, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Three counters removed. –84.46.52.217 (talk) 05:45, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

View counters for the "top 3" videos (excl. Google+, that would No. 2) removed, reliable sources for two of the "top 3" added, self-published source of the viral Google+ video replaced by source for viral + 2018 German reliable source embedding this 2013 English video. One of two Agenda videos removed. –84.46.52.197 (talk) 05:12, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Update 6: FYI, Talk:List of YouTubers#Emma Blackery, still celebrating her now successfully finished Google+ exorcism, musician it is, list anyway added to #See also. –84.46.52.197 (talk) 23:59, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Photos

The c:Category:Emma Blackery photos are fine for the event, but not good enough for the artist. Please find some nicer CC-BY-SA photos. Or create them in the UK or on her EU tours. –84.46.52.222 (talk) 07:50, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Better suggestion, grab some nice photos from Cute Without Ya on YouTube, upload them to WikiMedia Commons (licence CC-BY, attribution Blackery + video URL), and pick what you like best for the infobox here.

Presumably {{Infobox YouTube personality}} doesn't permit a vocal range, but if you know how to handle this without WP:USM source check out The Vocal Range of Emma Blackery (E♭3 - C♯6) on YouTube. –84.46.53.87 (talk) 12:22, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Update on the photo business, I've now extracted some CC-BY pictures from her CC-BY video on YouTube, and I'm still looking for a volunteer with a WikiMedia Commons account for a copy from a shared album to commons:Category:Emma Blackery. Ignore the meta data details, I can handle that on Commons without logging in, only the upload does not work as IP. –84.46.53.16 (talk) 08:44, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

AOB: Some videos discussed in Mainstream MediaCelebMix e.a. are AWOL (=deleted or switched to private), I note one ID here waiting for better times: XDzsATaYUI8. –84.46.53.34 (talk) 16:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC) Updated (was two IDs), just in case, thanks. –84.46.52.251 (talk) 03:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

 – "Somebody" logged in after three years, uploaded the video + 19 photos one day after "Cute without You" was released, that's one year minus one day after the video was published, and logged off again: –84.46.52.142 (talk) 04:34, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Personal life

@C.Fred: That's a good section for some facts still missing here such as her activism against "self harm". But this is a BLP, and I could add more than one self-published video, where she stated that she shared too much of her personal life.
The CFS fact is the proverbial tip of the iceberg, there are also self-published videos about other health issues (plural), about the locations + meanings + timestamps of tattoos, and about lots of other personal facts on and on repeating right down to cup sizes, where I think that enwiki could wait for reliable+relevant 3rd party sources instead of self-published videos or CelebMix stories.
Presumably folks with similar issues will be delighted if they find somebody talking publicly about it, so this should be still good (for them). OTOH somewhere is a line where "good for them" and "bad for her" could get into a violent conflict, and a BLP isn't the place to fight it out. –84.46.53.242 (talk) 17:05, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

It would be better if the illness were discussed in independent sources, even if the info came from interviews with her. My concern was getting the information into a format that was more fitting for an article after the 91.1.* IP added it; discussion could then follow on whether it warranted inclusion. —C.Fred (talk) 02:49, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

–84.46.52.251 (talk) 04:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Related, Feel Good 101: The Outsiders' Guide to a Happier Life exists now and ends up on #Book here. Expanding that section could cover other issues, she didn't pull the video series out of thin air. The book in Category:Books about mental health is based on the series. –84.46.52.2 (talk) 22:18, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Presumably some folks interested in this BLP wonder why deleting an Instagram account and a Twitter account with 750K followers is not yet noted here.^[6] The reddit statement is a primary reference, arguably unsuited here until some WP:42 source confirms the fact without discussing the "unencylopedic" five years old YouTube drama related to this reaction now. I've seen about ten comments on an obscure forum, and that's definitely off topic here; maybe one comment telling her that she shouldn't read this, let alone edit there, nailed it, but of course random forums (with few exceptions) are totally unsuited on enwiki. –84.46.53.245 (talk) 19:22, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with Wikipedia is that, besides being open to anyone, it encourages fans to write paratext. That perverse incentive results in sub-optimal policy-violating content. My recommendation is to stick to what The Guardian publishes. If Emma were that important, real journalists (rather than Redditors) would have written about her. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:29, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Fun fact, there are actually two references of The Guardian on the page. I've invited Alicedeve to the discussion here. From my Pov five CelebMix references at the moment are on the border of too much, and two WeTheUnicorns aren't better. She's now musician before vlogger, further self-published videos must be really essential as references. For the one in #Book I could explain the rationale, but I've actually already done this between the first 32B or 34D lines of this section. –84.46.52.233 (talk) 20:12, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Sanity check, there are 9…12 uses of journal.transformativeworks.org on enwiki, the article doesn't mention WP:42, WP:BLP, or any other enwiki rule, the journal isn't listed on WP:RS/P, it's not known in the WP:RS/Noticeboard archives, also not as TWC, and the TWC page doesn't have Transformative Works and Culture. The article doesn't mention Wikia a.k.a. FANDOM, this is a rather dubious essay, speaking as "phan" of Blackery or fan of Sasha Grey, Madonna, Suzi Quatro, etc. –84.46.52.233 (talk) 21:08, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

TWC now has Transformative Works and Cultures, maybe it helps for searches. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 19:44, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

@Daniii 1206: That might also affect you, no SPA {{welcome}} pages daily. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 21:26, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

• MY 2c - Given Emma's known to start and stop Youtube channels and given the fact she can easily delete the videos I would personally like to see these backed up by other sources, If an excerpt from the book could be provided with the book that says both claims then I would be happy for her book to be used as a citation,

Not saying she's lying not at all but as far as I know for medical claims there needs to be actual substantial evidence and I would consider excerpts to be substantial evidence as opposed to just the book itself if that makes sense. –Davey2010^Talk 21:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Just for clarity when I say excerpts I mean something like this or like this. –Davey2010^Talk 21:31, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I never understood those horrible books.google URLs, but "no preview" for [7] is a dead-end at the moment. The #Book section is okay as is, "anxiety and depression" is even listed on the books.google abstract, and "self harm" was something she observed (trying to avoid the word "only" in this context.) –84.46.52.197 (talk) 12:05, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Davey2010 and C.Fred: Checking all references I just found that the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome video is unlisted, and she said at the start: "I usually try and keep this sort of stuff real private". Can I just remove this self-published source or should we ask the BLP/N experts? –84.46.52.197 (talk) 18:06, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

FYI: WP:BLP/N#Emma_Blackery. –84.46.53.140 (talk) 23:51, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

One archived comment, inconclusive for the unlisted CFS video. –84.46.53.123 (talk) 19:32, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Twitter revived on April 2, Instagram exists again (can't be from scratch, 369K followers), ditto FaceBook. And that's about six weeks too soon from my PoV, but hey. –84.46.52.142 (talk) 11:00, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Villains Tracklist

I just finished up a quick grammar pass and noticed that the formatting for the Villains tracklist looks more than a bit messy. It may just be my browser, so could one of you chime in and confirm? I'm extremely new to this whole editing thing, so I'd admittedly need to leave that fix to someone more experienced. However, while I'm writing about it, is that tracklist notable enough to include in the first place? NinjaPenguinDan (talk) 04:41, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

That was my bad idea for two reasons: (1) Somebody suggested a page for the album, cf. #Villains, and that page would need a track list. (2) The singles actually list all tracks of the EPs, because I never figured out what was "really" a single, or "only" a music video showing up in the "Emma Blackery topic" or EmmaBlackeryVEVO channels on YouTube.
For the Villains LP it's clearer, and it would be odd to exclude the 11-4=7 tracks from the LP, but list almost everything else (some early demos and royalty free tracks are not mentioned at all, Blackery deleted her bandcamp account in one of her irregular history clean-up exercises ;) I've replaced 12em (4 columns for me) by 15em (3 columns for me), does that change anything for you, and is it better? –84.46.53.175 (talk) 06:05, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Gotcha. Thanks a bunch for the info. I suppose I would have found your first point about Villans had I read through the rest of the talk page in more detail, so we'll just say 'lesson learned' and leave it at that. Thanks for not slapping me down harshly. I'm still not entirely sold on its necessity in this particular article, but as a newbie, I'd probably best not debate it further until I have a good bit more familiarity with the style guidelines. As for your formatting adjustment, that does look neater, so thanks for the effort. However, I glanced at a few other album-related articles and found a guide at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Album_article_style_advice#Track_listing, and after some examination it just doesn't seem to match stylistically. A simple numbered list without columns would work, though aesthetically I'd prefer the {{Track listing}} template that they list. That's purely a matter of personal preference, though, so take it with a grain of salt. Yes, I do realize that this article isn't strictly within the scope of WikiProject Albums, but I'd wager this specific usage falls close enough that we can follow their style manual. Any thoughts? –NinjaPenguinDan (talk) 06:41, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I think the template sucks. The output is nice, but now it's very obvious that there is a track list on a BLP, which possibly shouldn't be there. –84.46.53.175 (talk)

@NinjaPenguinDan: The "quick proofread" consisted of two tweaks, one minor (see edit history), one major (the tours in the lede should somehow indicate "at least three" with Busted first and Villains so far last). Fresh DEnglish at the end of #YouTube, I needed an excuse to restore the comedy category. –84.46.52.129 (talk) 18:00, 30 April 2019 (UTC)