Talk:F. Lee Bailey

Untitled

I am at a loss to understand Centrust as a satellite of BCCI. Can this be truly documented?

Late in the Centrust game came BCCI and it clearly did not cause the Centrust troubles but bought into Centrust securities delaying its exposure. Hardly the same, but maybe such that this statemetn is tru "Centrust which in 198x of 199X became a satellite of BCCI, if that happened but this was after Centrust was in big trouble.

Some of your quotes come from several blogs which may go overboard in their exposure of consipiracies and appear to be wrong.

Someone should look and maybe change that phrase or elimminate BCCI out of it unless properly rephrased to reflect what is truly known.Chief.Scribe 06:25, 3 October 2005 (UT

Honestly I don't know that much about Bailey but I am sure he is more well regarded than this article makes him appear to be, isn't he?- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:53, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

You are correct. He was the pre-eminent media legal authority in the 70s and early 80s. His celebrity status led him to frequent appearances on late-night talk shows as well as providing legal opinions on topical issues to nearly all media outlets. Not to mention, he hosted his own show Good Company, where he interviewed the rich and famous. As well as another show in the 80s, called Lie Detector, where he cross-examined celebrities & personalities while hooked up to a lie detector, so as to discern the validity of any accusations against them.

Right now, he's currently living in Lynn, Massachuestts, so if I could I'd get a photo of him, but he doesn't stick his face out very much. --Saint-Paddy 02:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

He has recently been seen in Falmouth, ME numerous times and looks weathered. Feb 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.253.85.180 (talk) 03:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Citations format a mess

This article needs cleanup; use of one consistent citation style; added templates; can't figure out what notes go with what statements due to formatting problems. Whoever added those notes originally needs to correct their errors and to make clear what source citations go with what statements. Sorry that I have to exit Wikipedia; leaving this matter to those who have worked on this article to try to correct. Thanks. --NYScholar 15:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Time sequence? section Education and military service

It is not clear to me how you can be member of the class of '54 then drop out in '52. Somebody please clarify; might be an USoAism. 85.178.84.249 (talk) 16:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

If one enters school with a projected graduation date in 1954, that's frequently used as one's "Class of" year, even if one does not graduate with that class. /Bruce/ [aka Slasher] (talk) 13:40, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

"Boston Strangler" section is a mess

Starting w/ second sentence, the "Boston Strangler" section is a mess. Not sure what the author was trying to say. Maybe something got deleted or messed up since then? 65.0.199.156 (talk) 03:42, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Disbarment

Bailey is described in the opening paragraph as a "disbarred attorney" in FL and MA. Are there places he isn't disbarred? If so, why are we stressing this aspect of his career in the opening paragraph? Isn't he currently practicing law? Co149 (talk) 01:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It should read "former attorney." "Disbarred attorney" is an oxymoron; once disbarred, a person is no longer an attorney. You can be disbarred; you can be an attorney; but you cannot be a disbarred attorney. TJRC (talk) 22:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

one can only be disbarred in states where one was admitted to the bar in the first place. The practice of law in the US is on a state by state basis. In any other state, he would have to take the bar exam as he did in Maine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.72.159.156 (talk) 00:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Did you mean "Mass." rather than "Maine"? TJRC (talk) 01:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

F. Lee Bailey, polygamist?

According to this entry, F. Lee Bailey is a polygamist for he was married to Florence Hart from 1972 tom1988 and to Patricia Shiers from 1985 to 1999. Maybe that was the real reason why he was disbarred! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.123.139 (talk) 02:48, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

To add to article: photo

To add to article: a photo. 66.213.33.2 (talk) 23:05, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's already been noted above: "It is requested that an image or photograph be included in this article to improve its quality."

If you have one that meets Wikipedia licensing or fair-use requirements, please upload it. TJRC (talk) 23:30, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Comments

I've been asked to comment on the suitability of this article for GAN. I've not reviewed at GA for some time, although I regularly do so at FAC, and I don't claim to be an expert on US law. That said, here goes

• Some refs are bare urls, others are dead or incomplete (50 isn't attributed to AP), I haven't checked them all, but perhaps a link-check  Done
• The lead should summarise the text, and therefore refs should be used here only if unavoidable. I'm not sure that is the case here  Done
• A couple of sentences are uncited, not all marked as such  Done, at least I added some more.
• Some inconsistent practice such as wikilinking some US states, but not all. Done, as much as I saw.
• It's a bit underlinked, I've added a view, but not systematically  Done, as much as I saw.
• I'd be inclined to shorten the first heading to just "Early life"  Done
• I don't like "Further reading" sections. If they aren't used as refs, don't use them. Several are dead links too  Done

The text looks OK, but the referencing needs a fair bit of work. link check report

Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:07, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

@Jimfbleak: I've marked one the list the ones that have been completed. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 08:40, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

@Crash Underride:, apart from a couple of typos, which I've fixed, just one query. I wonder if the O J heading should be just his name for consistency with the earlier headings, which just give the names? other than that, I'd suggest taking it to GAN and see what happens Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:42, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

@Jimfbleak: I've renamed that section as well as the Claude DuBoc section. Do you think the article would need a picture to pass? If so, do you know where I would be able to find one and get the proper clearance to use? ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 07:41, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

@Crash Underride: For images to be usable here, they need to be out of copyright or public domain. Any images of him won't be out of copyright, you can't invoke Fair Use for a living person, and there is nothing on Commons, so your only hope is a US Federal government website such as the FBI, since they are normally PD. Failing that, you could use images from the cases, File:PattyHearstmug.jpg seems suitable. I don't know if images are mandatory. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:48, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Osteopathic physician, or osteopath?

The link from "osteopathic physician" goes to the wiki for "osteopathy", which within the first couple sentences state that "osteopaths are legally restricted from using the title D.O. to avoid confusion with Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine." This is inconsistent; if "osteopathic physician" refers to a D.O., then it should link there. If it refers to an "osteopath", then using the phrase "osteopathic physician" in the article is incorrect under the laws of the United States. Matthias Alexander Jude Shapiro (talk) 23:32, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, there are no "laws of the United States" on using the title "D.O.". Each state would have its own laws on that, and the pertinent state here would be Ohio's. Ontario, Canada, has a 1991 statute that says "No person other than a member [of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario] shall use the titles 'osteopath', 'physician' or 'surgeon', a variation or abbreviation or an equivalent in another language"; but Ohio in 1954 is not Ontario in 1991.

I would be very surprised if Ohio had a law that prevented a degree holder from using their degree. I don't see anything in either the applicable Ohio statutes or regulations that suggest that that's the case. I think the unsourced comment in osteopathy is probably wrong, or at least too broad. TJRC (talk) 00:07, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

What about his father?

What about his father? Seems odd no mention. Or maybe I just missed it. AAABBB222 (talk) 01:41, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

• Still wondering. AAABBB222 (talk) 22:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
  • @AAABBB222: Hmmmm....maybe it's due to a lack of verifiable, find-able information? ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 00:30, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

• I haven't checked whether these meet WP:RS, but...

• "His mother was a teacher and nursery school director, and his father worked in newspaper advertising.... His parents divorced when he was ten years old. [1]
• "His father was an advertising salesman and his mother was the founder of a nursery school.... his father left the family in 1943." [2]

TJRC (talk) 00:53, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

• Thank you very much for finding the information. I added to the article. Concerning the "reliable source" policy, it turns out the 'notablebiographies' source was already cited in the article, so I just used that source. AAABBB222 (talk) 20:16, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:F. Lee Bailey/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Iazyges (talk · contribs) 17:20, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Will start soon. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 17:20, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Criteria

GA Criteria
GA Criteria: 1 1.a Y 1.b Y 2 2.a Y 2.b Y 2.c Y 2.d Y (Highest is 66.1%, however it is a youtube video and likely copied from the wikipedia article.) 3 3.a Y 3.b Y 4 4.a Y 5 5.a Y 6 6.a Y 6.b Y

• No DAB links Y
• No dead links N:
  1. Judge cuts couple's jail term". Orlando Sentinel. March 25, 2006
  2. Judge cuts couple's jail term". Orlando Sentinel. March 25, 2006
• No missing citations N:
  1. He served as a jet fighter pilot and then began to serve as a squadron legal officer, the role he filled until he resigned his commission in 1956.
  2. Guests were questioned by Bailey and were then submitted to a polygraph test, which was discussed at the conclusion of the show.

• @Crash Underride: Due to the missing citations I am placing the review on hold, will continue once the citations have been added. -- Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 14:05, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
• @Iazyges: taken care of. There was only one instance of the mentioned dead link. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 20:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

  @Crash Underride: Believe the Guests were questioned by Bailey and were then submitted to a polygraph test, which was discussed at the conclusion of the show. part is still missing a citation; everything else fixed. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 13:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

  @Iazyges: I trimmed it to fit what I could find a source for and it's now sourced. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 00:38, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Prose Suggestions

Please note that all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion.

• For most of his career he was licensed in Massachusetts and in Florida, where he was disbarred in 2001. suggest For most of his career he was licensed in Massachusetts, until he was disbarred in 2003, and in Florida, where he was disbarred in 2001.
• In 2014, he was denied a law license by the Maine Board of Bar Examiners and the Maine Supreme Judicial Court. suggest In 2014, he was denied a law license by the Maine Board of Bar Examiners and, on appeal, by the Maine Supreme Judicial Court.
• @Crash Underride: That is all my suggestions, passing now. -- Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 10:33, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

"Disbarred attorney"

[moved from my talk page, since this is about the specific article - TJRC]

Hi, TJRC. The phrases "disbarred attorney" and "disbarred lawyer" are in common parlance and quite unexceptionable. Here is an article in the ABA Journal that uses the phrase "disbarred attorney" no fewer than six times, including in the title:

https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/disbarred-attorneys-trying-to-get-their-licenses-back-face-an-uphill-battle

The ABA’s own Rule 25 from its own disciplinary code itself uses the phrase "disbarred lawyer" and refers throughout to the applicant seeking reinstatement as a "lawyer" without evident contradiction or confusion :

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/resources/lawyer_ethics_regulation/model_rules_for_lawyer_disciplinary_enforcement/rule_25/

By contrast, "former lawyer" is a euphemistic contrivance that fails to capture the distinction between a lawyer who has retired from a lawyer who has had his license confiscated for malfeasance. -- Rrburke (talk) 11:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. I still don't like the self-contradictory phrase, whether it's in use elsewhere or not, but my revulsion is insufficient grounds to revert, and I don't want to edit-war in any event.

I still think it would be cleaner, in an encyclopedia, to use words more correctly, but it's a challenge to come up with something that meets that bar and does not sound too stilted ("former attorney who has been disbarred in both states where he had been admitted" or something like that?).

I certainly don't want to whitewash it; i just object to the oxymoron: when one is disbarred, one is by definition no longer an attorney, so "disbarred attorney" is inherently a contradiction, regardless of whether the contradiction is used elsewhere. TJRC (talk) 16:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The term "disbarred attorney" is an accepted term in the American legal profession. Though it may seem to be a contradiction in terms, there is no reason to change the phrase and it is regularly used. Jurisdicta (talk) 03:57, 4 June 2021 (UTC)