Talk:Ferrari 250 GTO

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CCs[edit]

Isn't it cubic centimetres instead of cubic centilitres? I'm almost sure it is, so I will change it...

Ferris Bueller[edit]

Wasn't this the car supposedly portrayed in the film "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"? Albeit, the one in the film was a modified MGB, but I'm pretty sure it was this car. EDIT: My mistake...it was a 250GT Spyder California.

$15 million sale?[edit]

The $15 million sale is mentioned twice in the same section, once referred to as a "legend" and once as "common knowledge". Maybe mentioning this once would be enough and since there is no reference, I think the first statement is more appropriate. 85.226.5.187 12:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The legend bit needs to be re-edited as it is not well written. Willirennen 23:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First rear spoiler on a racing car?[edit]

I read once (in a UK 80's car mag, I think) that the GTO's rear spoiler was a first for a racing car, and that Ferrari spread a rumour that it was to keep exhaust fumes out of the cabin. Anyone else heard that?

In some way, Phil Hill himself stated that "This was perhaps the first time Ferrari had done serious work on a GT's functional (as opposed to imagined) aerodynamics."
[1]

But I don´t think this is enough to bring that fact into the article. --PoulsHaut (talk) 13:12, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the story about the "exhaust fume deflector that became a spoiler" originated from the development of the 250 TRI61. See linked section and associated reference. I don't doubt that people may have mistakenly attributed it to the 250 GTO. Whether the 250 TRI61 design actually was the first appearance of a rear spoiler on a racing car, or whether the 250 GTO was the first to include one specifically intended for aerodynamic purposes, I can't say. I'm sure I've read statements to this effect in some Ferrari books, but I'm not aware of an authoritative (or non-Ferrari-centric) source on the subject. Prova MO (talk) 21:48, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Hill, Phil (2017-04-20). "Phil Hill on the Iconic Ferrari 250 GTO". Road & Track. Retrieved 2019-08-28.

Factual accuracy on "Collectibility" section[edit]

To quote..."a GTO sold at a Las Vegas auction for $5.5 million"...

According to this page by Barchetta.cc, that car sold in question turned out to be a faked sale...therefore no sale at all...lets put it this way, even reliable third party source can get facts wrong. Donnie Park (talk) 15:31, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction in opening para[edit]

It says that in 2012, a car was sold for a record price of $38,115,000. The next sentence says that one year later, one was sold for a new record price of $38 million. I believe $38,000,000 is less than $38,115,000 by $115,000 (mere pocket change anyway...). If you can't state exactly how much it was, then say something like "within the $38-million range", instead of just listing "$38 million" as the new record price when the previous record is already over $38 million..45Colt 06:43, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Owner's registry[edit]

I removed this portion as Wikipedia is WP:NOT an owner's registry. Donnie Park (talk) 18:55, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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car[edit]

why 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO is more costly car in the world — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.72.161.142 (talk) 09:30, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Omologata/Omologato[edit]

Which form should be used?
Omologata is a feminine singular
250 GT-Omologata
599 GT-Omologata
599 GT-Omologata
599 GT-Omologata
Also same form for Modificata
F512M for ‘modificata’ YBSOne (talk) 16:59, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The 512 M, needless to remark, stood for “Modificata” YBSOne (talk) 17:01, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ferrari Magazine uses Omologato maybe by mistake, still should be reported here for all fairness. And it is the only instance of this form used next to the name of the car on a Ferrari site. Many more instances of an "a" suffix. YBSOne (talk) 17:03, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gran Turismo Omologata of which just 36 examples were built YBSOne (talk) 17:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I found mention of the origin of the "O" in "GTO" in one of my sources, and I think it clarifies the Omologato/Omologata discussion. On pg 16 of Bluemel/Pourret's Ferrari 250 GTO, they quote an article by Denis Jenkinson from the March 1963 issue of motorsport (available to read in full here).

There is some doubt about the origin of the designation G.T.O., for early in 1962 English speaking journalists were using the term, but people in Modena had never heard of it. However, later in the season it was generally accepted and a story came out that it was supposed to have been called 1962 250GT and as it was homologated for G.T. racing with the F.I.A., at which point in the paperwork it was written as 250 GT-O, meaning "Omologato" (Italian for Homologated) and in error the hyphen was missed out by a typist in copying the memo. Thence the G.T.O. was born on paper! — D. S. J.

 So, from this we can see that the O in GTO was not a singular noun (in which case as previously discussed here omologata would be linguistically correct). Instead, it is from omologato, the past participle form of the verb omologare. This can be confirmed as linguistically consistent by looking at the conjugations of omologare, for example here. It's also interesting to note that the name was originally unofficial and used by journalists, only adopted later by the factory. To my understanding this is typical of 50s/60s/70s Ferrari, both in the loose boundaries between official and unofficial designations (another example being the use of "Daytona" to refer to the 365 GTB/4), as well as the willingness to entertain journalists and at times take input from them (Enzo himself began his involvement in auto racing as a journalist, and one of closest advisors, Franco Gozzi, was a former journalist). So after reading all this, I support changing omologata back to omologato, perhaps also adding some historical context about the name to the article, as I think the story of its origin is revealing. Prova MO (talk) 00:12, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe also worth noting that Pourret's earlier 1977 (revised 1987) book Ferrari 250 GT Competition Cars uses omologato, stating

[The newly introduced GTO's] official name was 250 GT Competition Berlinetta 1962. Homologation with the F.I.A. was applied for by extension and received. The name GTO came a while later, the "O" being the first letter of the Italian word Omologato. It seems that the name GTO was coined by a telegram mistake sent to Mr. Ferrari. Anyway, the name stuck and the car will always be known as the GTO.

 Fitzgerald, Merritt and Thompson, in their 1976 third edition of Ferrari: The Sports and Gran Turismo Cars, pithily state "The "O" suffix stood for "Omologato" or homologated." FWIW. Prova MO (talk) 00:33, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion there is a mistake to translate the standalone word "homologated" to "omologato" and not to use the feminine version when describing a car "Ferrari 250 Gran Turismo Omologata". Just like very source uses feminine version of "Modificata" when describing a car and not the standalone translation to "Modificato". Just my opinion, not an Italian language expert. YBSOne (talk) 18:54, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Again, the sources I reference discuss the use in Italian homologation sheets of omologato, the past participle form of the verb omologare, not as the feminine singular form (omologata) of the adjective omologato. In my opinion the naming conventions used on other cars (e.g. "Modificata", "599 Gran Turismo Omologata") are not really relevant, as Ferrari is not particularly consistent in naming conventions. Nor, based on the sources I reference, did the GTO name originate with the factory. Ultimately I'm trying to make an editing decision based not on differences of opinion about what sounds right if I or some hypothetical native Italian speaker was naming the car (in which case I would maybe be inclined to agree with you), but rather on historical accounts of how the car was named by both Ferrari and the press on its introduction. The only reliable sources I have found on that matter point to Omologato, and convincingly (to me) describe the circumstances that led to that naming decision.Prova MO (talk) 19:38, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Omologation issues[edit]

That "When FIA inspectors showed up to confirm that 100 examples had been built, Enzo Ferrari shuffled the same cars between different locations, thus giving the impression that the full complement of 100 cars was present" is reported even by the source as being a "popular legend" and not the truth. In reality is utter bullshit. The 250 GTO had been omologated for racing in the GT class because FIA allowed cars to be modified for racing after the 100th sample had been built, and the 250GTO passed to be a modification of the 250GT SWB. Actually every single difference between the 250GT and the 250GTO had been submitted to the FIA and approved.

For the same reason Shelby could compete in 1965 GT class with a car, the Shelby Cobra Daytona, built in six samples. For the same reason the 250LM had not been omologated for GT class, because, in its case, there was not a Ferrari mid-engine model built in at least 100 samples of which the 250LM could be a modification.

Hello anonymous editor, I have confirmed most of what you discuss here and made edits to that effect. I found detailed discussion of GTO homologation in Keith Bluemel/Jess Pourret's book Ferrari 250 GTO. One point of clarification is that Ferrari filed homologation extensions to modify the 250 GT SWB design, they weren't automatically allowed to modify once production of the original design exceeded 100 units. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia depends on reliable sources, not original research. So I had to go hunting for a copy of the book to follow up on your suggestion and incorporate it into the article. If you have more input on the article I would encourage that, but respectfully suggest you also learn how to cite sources on wikipedia Prova MO (talk) 00:50, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To the anonymous editor(s) who recently contributed a lot about chassis histories and selling prices to this article...[edit]

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. As an editor who has previously contributed a lot to this article, I truly appreciate your efforts to add additional information to a section that surely needs expansion. However, I must please ask you to review wikipedia's policy on citing sources. From the pattern of edits and from my familiarity with literature about the topic of this article, I can reasonably guess that you likely have access to reliable sources that inform the information you have added. However, if your additions to this article remain without inline citations, they are at risk of removal and all your hard work may be lost. I have tried to cite some of the information that has been added, particularly regarding individual chassis histories, but this is not possible for everything as I don't have access to every source. Besides, it would be a lot easier for you to do this at the time of editing, as you likely have the source right in front of you. If you need additional help with wikipedia's citation/source policies or how to actually create inline citations in articles, I am happy to mentor you. If you want to do that, you would need to create an account, so we can reliably communicate through talkpages. Prova MO (talk) 18:22, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Total produced contradiction[edit]

I think the contradiction stems from a misunderstanding. I think it is quite clear 36 were produced in the initial run (62-63) and then 3 (or 4) more were either built, or 3 (or 4) of the originals were repackaged in the new '64 body. Leaving it to someone who might know better. Here's some links:

CNBC: "36 ever made"

Sotheby's "36 ever made"

Top Gear: "four of the first run of 36 were subsequently re-bodied"

Sportscar digest: "A total of only 36 Ferrari GTOs were only ever produced between 1962 and 1963, and three ‘Series II’ were built in 1964. This has brought the total of GTOs ever made to just a mere 39"

CNN: 39 examples

Top Gear: "39 left Marinello's gates" Dhalamh (talk) 12:49, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing that out, good catch. I have made an edit clarifying the production number. The confusion originates from some sources considering the 4-litre "330 GTO" cars as part of the 250 GTO production run. Three of these cars were produced, hence 36 vs. 39. The cars are very similar visually and in chassis design, so they are not unrelated. However lots of non-specialist automotive articles fail to make the distinction between the 250 and 330 GTO types leading to this sort of confusion. I have rewritten a couple sentences to explain the inconsistency. Prova MO (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Chassis Number 3851GT[edit]

The entry in the table shows"Badly damaged twice". That understates it somewhat. In the 1962 Coupes du Salon race, driver Henri Oreiller was killed in the accident. www.racingsportscars.com/results/Montlhery-1962-10-07.html

I do not have an account so will leave it to someone else to update if desired. 138.124.165.3 (talk) 14:23, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2018 Sale of 4153 GT.[edit]

The car sold in 2018 but there is no proof of the amount. The $70,000,000 claimed is just hearsay at best. There has been no published proof of the amount paid. Miurasvjota (talk) 20:32, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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