Talk:Foreign involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Introduction needs rewrite to become more relevant[edit]

The introduction doesn't seem to be at all on topic. It's about Russian military organisation and does not pertain to the influence of countries beyond Russia and Ukraine on the war which began in 2022. A roundup of the actions of major and relevant powers and insitutions; such as the US, UK, France, Germany, Belarus, China, North Korea, Iran, the UN, NATO, the EU and the International Criminal Court -- for instance dealing with arms and ammunition deliveries and sales to Russia and Ukraine -- seems far more appropriate. Bearsca (talk) 02:24, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removing infobox[edit]

There’s no point of having an infobox, as the foreign involvement is not a military conflict. TheTechnologyGuy23 (talk) 06:44, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a point of splitting the map of aid in two?[edit]

As far as I'm aware, no state supplying lethal aid isn't also supplying humanitarian aid, thus these two maps could reasonably be merged. Varjagen (talk) 19:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Questionable article title[edit]

I understand that the current Wikipedia standard is to frame the events of 2022-2023 as a separate phase of a war that began in 2014, and this is neither time nor the place for me to contest that. I also understand that despite some controversy, the current Wikipedia standard is to refer to the entirety of this two-year period as the "Russian invasion of Ukraine" - again, not contesting that here or now.

What I am going to address is the title of this article, which is a sort of downstream effect of those aforementioned decisions. For me, the title reads very problematically, in that it seems to imply that (all) the foreign actors mentioned in the article are complicit in the forceful violation of the Ukrainian border by the Russian military.[a]

"Involvement in an invasion" almost necessarily implies that the one who is involved is involved on the invading side. Generally, the actions one takes in opposition to an invasion would be considered a "response to an invasion" rather than "involvement." Realistically, it seems that editors already understand this. Compare Belarusian involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Chechen involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine to Lithuania and the Russian invasion of Ukraine and United States and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Can you imagine what a pointed and problematic title "American involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine" would be?

At first I considered that with a simple swap of preposititions, "Foreign involvement during the Russian invasion of Ukraine" might be an acceptable solution, but I don't think this works grammatically. "Involvement" would generally have to be qualified as "involvement in something"; a search reveals that Wikipedia has only a single neglected article with the string "involvement during" in its title.

My next best suggestion is that the page gets renamed to "Foreign involvement in the Russo-Ukrainian War," since it actually contains some information regarding foreign actions during the 2014-2021 period. If there exist analogue articles for that period of war, they can be merged into this one, and pre- and post-2022 sections can be introduced if editors deem it appropriate.

  1. ^ I believe this would be the only way to interpret the phrase "Russian invasion of Ukraine" if it had not been reappropriated by Wikipedia editors as an apparent synonym for a two-year period of war.

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 07:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removed text[edit]

CC-BY-SA declaration; text in this section was copied from the article by me; I've removed it because it's off-topic or for some other reason. See the article's history for full attribution.

From Training in combined arms operations[edit]

The noncommissioned officer (NCO) is key[1] to Ukrainian military successes against Russia, according to Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman Ramón "CZ" Colón-López;[2] Ukrainian training began using three service-specific NCO training centers after 2014.[2]

References

  1. ^ Zabrodskyi et al. (30 Nov 2022) Preliminary Lessons in Conventional Warfighting from Russia's Invasion of Ukraine: February–July 2022: finding number 2 
  2. ^ a b Jim Garamone, DOD News (28 Feb 2023) NCOs Key to Ukrainian Military Successes Against Russia 

Cheers, Baffle☿gab 05:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

English variety used in this article[edit]

I've just finished a major copy-edit here. I noticed the article had a mixture of both British ("defence", armour", etc.) and American spellings ("defense, armor", etc), but dominantly used American spellings, so I've converted the article to use American spellings. After checking the original version in the history here, however, I saw the mixed spellings were inherited from material forked from another article, 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. I'm not going through that article to find the original style, per WP:ENGVAR, but I'm not bothered if someone wants to convert from American to British spellings; that's fine, but please be consistent and change all of the spellings outside refs, urls and quotations. I've left the date format as dmy, seeing no reason to change that. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 13:28, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa's and Cuban aid to Russia[edit]

South Africa has been under heavy accusation of deliverying weapons to Russia https://www.fpri.org/article/2023/05/russias-alleged-arms-shipment-in-south-africa/ and Cuba has supposedly "unvelied a human traficking network" which sends people to fight for Russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/05/cuba-uncovers-human-trafficking-ring-recruiting-for-russias-war-in-ukraine The fastest was (talk) 16:12, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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