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Good articleFrank Buckles has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 17, 2011Good article nomineeListed
April 5, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
April 21, 2011WikiProject A-class reviewApproved
May 5, 2011Featured article candidateNot promoted
Current status: Good article

File:Buckles-at-monument-2.jpg

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I added this image back to the "Life during the twenty-first century" section since it was something he actively worked on in his last years and should be illistrated in picture. Problem is, having the image there, requires moving the W. image, which in turn smooshes all images onto the right side. This looks bad. I am not sure if we can shrink the images or what, but I need some opinions. I don't want to lose this image. - Neutralhomer • Talk • Coor. Online Amb'dor • 06:02, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's definitely a nice image, but the editor who ran the Good Article Review felt that the fair use rationale was deficient. He said that the same basic information could be conveyed in this article by showing two public domain images: one of Buckles in his last years, and one of the monument. That's why this image was removed from this article.Anythingyouwant (talk) 06:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree, NH.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:24, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I will revert that change momentarily. Thanks. - Neutralhomer • Talk • Coor. Online Amb'dor • 15:37, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Hitler, I'd leave it in the body. Hitler sells. Anything having to do with Hitler fascinates everyone. The only time I ever had an article pass without any negative comments was Albert Speer, by some accounts Hitler's friend. Close contact with not-so-banal-evil is worth including, I'm sure he told that story and was bought innumerable drinks over seventy years.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As a compromise, I put the Hitler encounter back in, but in parentheses.Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:34, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Last section seems too long

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I'd remove the following from the last section:

It was reported that the request for Buckles to lie in honor was supported by his daughter. On March 10, Sir Winston Churchill's great-grandson, Jonathan Sandys, urged Congress to allow Buckles to lay in repose in the rotunda. Northeast Vernon County High School in Nevada, Missouri, Buckles' former high school, held a service honoring his "life and service", on March 8, 2011. Also on March 8, 2011, Buckles' home church, Zion Episcopal Church in Charles Town, West Virginia, announced it would hold a memorial service for Buckles. The latter service was held on March 16, 2011 and was officiated by the Episcopal bishop of West Virginia, as well as the local pastor. Memories were shared by Buckles' son-in-law, his nephew, among others. On March 10, 2011, family spokesperson David DeJonge announced that Buckles would be buried at Arlington National Cemetery in a private ceremony. Whether Buckles would lay in repose in the United States Capitol Rotunda, however, remained tied up in Congress. On March 11, 2011, the United States Department of Defense confirmed that Buckles would lie in honor at Arlington National Cemetery and announced details for the day of the interment on March 15.

Also, maybe his religion (Episcopalian) could go in the infobox.Anythingyouwant (talk) 09:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is far too much information (all of it good and sourced) to remove. If need be, break it up into paragraphs, but I don't feel removing a large swath of information is a good idea. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For most Wikipedia articles, we have to select certain information from a greater amount of available information. The stuff quoted may have been okay to select as events unfolded, but it ought to be deselected now, because it's just not very important. How about if I keep most (or all) of the cited sources, but replace this text with a summary?Anythingyouwant (talk) 15:58, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would summarize/remove

On March 10, Sir Winston Churchill's great-grandson, Jonathan Sandys, urged Congress to allow Buckles to lay in repose in the rotunda. Northeast Vernon County High School in Nevada, Missouri, Buckles' former high school, held a service honoring his "life and service", on March 8, 2011. Also on March 8, 2011, Buckles' home church, Zion Episcopal Church in Charles Town, West Virginia, announced it would hold a memorial service for Buckles. The latter service was held on March 16, 2011 and was officiated by the Episcopal bishop of West Virginia, as well as the local pastor. Memories were shared by Buckles' son-in-law, his nephew, among others.

and then combine the last three sentences that Anythingyouwant pasted above. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 20:28, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I just think the removal of a mention about his high school and Winston Churchill's great grandkid is a bad idea. We could move the "Zion Episcopal Church in Charles Town, West Virginia" part around to the top and use just the source to say he was "Episcopalian", which I would be cool with, but I do think the mention of the Episcopal bishop of West Virginia (bishops don't just show up for anyone) is worth mentioning. I don't think we should be cutting information, but should be adding. There is so much we can add, why cut? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:17, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Focusing on the Churchill relative, his only notability is as a great-grandchild which is very slight, and anyway Churchill was not even Prime Minister during World War I. If we mention the great-grandchild, then we would have to mention all the more notable people who weighed in about this, like Bob Dole, et cetera. The article says, "The resolution, however, was reported as being blocked by the Speaker of the House John Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who sought permission instead for a ceremony to be held in the Amphitheater of Arlington National Cemetery.[77]" That seems like plenty to me. I doubt Buckles would want us to go on and on and on about a silly little catfight regarding where his corpse would be before burial.
Regarding the high school, if that is mentioned it can be done very briefly in a single sentence together with his church, and maybe a few other things.Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You make a good point about Churchill's grandkid. OK, knock that out. I am cool with the high school being mentioned with the church, though you might have to make it two sentences, else you have a run-on sentence. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:14, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Never served in combat"

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Is this necessary? I mean Florence Greene's article doesn't add "though she never served in combat" to the fact that she was a barracks waitress. Claude Choules' article doesn't add "though he never served in combat" to his experiences at sea. The article states that Mr. Buckles drove ambulances and motorcycles. As this sentence doesn't seem to imply in any way that he saw live combat, adding the disclaimer "though he never served in combat" seems entirely unnecessary. It seems to imply that Buckles' veteran status is less than that of those who actually fought. I do realize that many perhaps do feel that way, but that shouldn't be for Wikipedia to decide. That phrase (IMHO, of course) seems to be unnecessarily negative toward Mr. Buckles. Is there any objection to removing it? Joefromrandb (talk) 09:32, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You and I had the same idea, you beat me to removing it though. :) You will like the edit summary I was going to use: "removed per talk page post that made a good point". :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:39, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I do like it!! And while I'm here, I'd just like to offer my thanks to you, and the others (i.e. Anythingyouwant), who have improved this article beyond anything I would have ever thought possible. Joefromrandb (talk) 09:48, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Glad we could. :) It isn't done though, still under two reviews (A-Class and Peer) and I hope to take it to FAC. So there is still work to do. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:51, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(Undent) The bit about he and his brother having two sisters was phrased to allow for the possibility of another brother. He did have another brother, Roy, even though we haven't yet found a source that passes muster.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I follow that, but feel free to change it back if you think it's optimal. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
NH, Roy Buckles was born in 1882. Any chance you could check the 1890 and 1900 census for him? If we're going to list siblings, we might as well get all of them.
Other possible items to maybe include: William McKinley, a civil war veteran, was President when Frank was born; when he lived in NYC and was a National Guard member, he had a bank job at J.P. Morgan; he was grand Marshall of the national Memorial Day parade in DC in 2007; we ought to link to his congressional testimony, and maybe quote from it; if he had grandkids that might be worth a mention; he spoke Portuguese too.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added the link to the 1890 Census via Ancestry.com, which was approved on WP:RSN. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Egg-cellent. Thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:32, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You're Welcome. :) Let me know if you need anything else. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:38, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't even think of FAC until someone closes the image discussion at Commons one way or the other. Whatever image we use at the top can probably be considerably enhanced by the Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Photography workshop.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That is still open? OK, let me fix that. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually Mr. Choules who you previously mentioned saw action against a German Zeppelin (I Dan tha Man I (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2015 (UTC))[reply]

Scarlet Fever

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Perhaps a slight modification would be optimal here, to explain to the reader that Frank and Ashman suffered from scarlet fever together, with Frank surviving, and Ashman succumbing. Also, the article refers to Mr. Buckles as "Frank" when describing this. I realize that the first name is being used to differentiate between Frank and his brother. My concern is that as Frank was a very young child, he would have been known at the time as "Wood", rather than "Frank". Joefromrandb (talk) 21:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds reasonable. Please feel free to edit accordingly.Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:07, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the go-ahead. I made a few changes, but I'm sure it could be improved further, as I'm not the most eloquent fellow. Joefromrandb (talk) 23:26, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

block quote

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The quote from Buckles' website is overlapping, and hiding text in the article proper. I'd attempt to fix it, but would rather leave it to an editor less likely to mess it up. Joefromrandb (talk) 08:15, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing that problem. Maybe someone else can see it and fix it.Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:00, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's right underneath the photo of Obama and Biden speaking with Buckles' daughter. Joefromrandb (talk) 21:18, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2nd oldest male?

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It says, "at the time of his death, Buckles was the 2nd oldest male veteran in the world". I believe he was the 2nd oldest period. Florence Green was born 17 days after Buckles. Only Józef Kowalski seems to have been older. Can we remove "male"? Joefromrandb (talk) 09:20, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add that "2nd oldest male" is factual. However, it is at least slightly misleading, as it seems to imply the existence of an older female veteran, which is not the case. Joefromrandb (talk) 09:25, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A quick note

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I have made, and continue to make, edits here and there to this article. I feel priviledged to work with NH, AYW, and the others who have done so much for this article. I just wish to state here, for the record, that anyone should feel free to undo any edit of mine they deem necessary without waiting for discussion. Joefromrandb (talk) 09:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Food

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I inserted some info today about how he helped to feed hungry French children in WWI, and also gave food to children who were imprisoned with him in WWII. Kind of touching that the farm boy from the Midwest did that.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:04, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hitler

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I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for the parenthesis. Hitler is quite possibly the most vile individual to have lived, but if Frank Buckles met him, that seems quite noteworthy. Joefromrandb (talk) 16:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. If he had died, say at 92, it might have been the most noteworthy thing Buckles did in an absolute sense. Hearing about it leaves you wanting all the details.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, parens removed.Anythingyouwant (talk) 16:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestors who were soldiers in the Revolution

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Footnote 12 says: "Buckles had proven that 6 of his ancestors had served in the American Revolution. One, Laban Smart, was his great-grandfather." Does anyone know if this is a quote from the source? In any event, do we really need it in the footnote? It's kind of confusing, because it leaves you wondering who the heck the other 5 were. Great-great-grandfathers? Other great-grandfathers? Grandfathers?Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps ladies in disguise.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe. BTW, in my nitpicky opinion, we ought to stick with Buckles' or Buckles's but not switch back and forth.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Stand by, I am working on this. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:33, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, go here and then search for page 22/23. It is a flash magazine turner, so it you can't directly link to the pages. There is a lot of information in there, so be sure to check out everything. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:35, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please take care of it, NH? I don't have the necessary flash plug-ins and whatnot. I don't have administrator access either, which would be needed to install the flash plug-in.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:38, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, let me go have dinner and then I will get on that section. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. No dessert until you fix it.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Turns out it is "fend for yourself" night, so I just grabbed a Pepsi and some Little Debbie brownies and will have dinner later. Time for work. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:47, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is the section of the magazine. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! So, he was descended from seven (not six) Revolutionary War soldiers, including one great-grandfather (and three great-greats, and three great-great-greats). Interesting.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sure :) Yeah, the Buckles family must have served in the Revolution and then moved to Illinois and then Oklahoma in the great trek West. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Army of Occupation Medal

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This article says, "In 1941, Buckles received the Army of Occupation of Germany Medal for his post-war service in Europe during the year 1919." But the Lede says he received that medal before 1920. Also, the sentence I just quoted could use a footnote.Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Stand by, let me see what I can dig up. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:42, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The best I can do is this. Unfortunately, nothing I found gives a date. :( - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Our article, Army of Occupation of Germany Medal, says the medal was authorized by Congress on November 21, 1941. It was awarded automatically and was "retroactive by design". So there's our date, modulo any processing delay. PhGustaf (talk) 19:47, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, I fixed it, thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

99 Bottles of Beer

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We now have 99 sources. It should stay at 99 if there are no other good and interesting reliable sources. But, really, we are intelligent and inquisitive people. Surely we can hit 100.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Turns out that the upcoming documentary about Buckles will be narrated by Richard Thomas (actor).Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I assume they chose him because John-boy Walton was from the mountains! Cupla hundred miles away. Good night, Jim Bob.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:10, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If they do a movie, Richard Thomas could play the middle-aged Buckles, and then Ralph Waite could do the honors for the later years.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 16:22, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"sacrificed with their lives"

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One of the two references for that quote uses the out-of-place "with"; the other does not. It would be helpful to find something authoritative.

I think this article could be brought to FA soon enough to run on the main page on Memorial Day (May 30) unless something else has that slot already. 69.111.194.167 (talk) 08:32, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment. I fixed it. Virtually all sources say "sacrificed with their lives".Anythingyouwant (talk) 15:48, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wood

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Revisiting this for a moment, the article currently has a ref link validating his birthname. However, should we perhaps explain for the reader why he changed his name? In other words, should we add a couple of sentences to the article, explaining why he chose the name "Frank Woodruff"? As it is now, the reader will only see this info if they dig into the refs. Is it noteable enough to write about it? Joefromrandb (talk) 10:56, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote 7 has a quote about this, so the reader wouldn't have to click on any links to get the explanation. Whether that explanation should be moved from footnote 7 into the section on World War I is a close question. I'm okay with it the way it is. Maybe we could wait and see what the FA people like?Anythingyouwant (talk) 15:33, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Wonder if NH has an opinion. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:40, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As a FA person, I could go for it either way, please make sure it is fully cited.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:38, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I put the explanation of his name into the text, plus an explanation of why he drove ambulances, plus removed from the footnote the quote about how he got his name. All fully cited, of course.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:13, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think that is wise. People are going to be interested in his WWI service. May as well make the most of it.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:22, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weird bot message

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If you go to this article and click "edit", you can find the following: <!-- Bot inserted parameter. Either remove it; or change its value to "." for the cite to end in a ".", as necessary. -->{{inconsistent citations}}
Can someone who knows about this stuff do whatever needs to be done in order to get rid of that? Thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:16, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, I think I figured it out.Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I just took out the "postscript" field completely as it isn't needed. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:08, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nit

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In the "Active centenarian" section, NBC Nightly News is italicized, but ABC's World News Tonight isn't.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:19, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. And congratulations on A-Class.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 13:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Horse

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There are two problems with mentioning the horse. First, it gives the misimpression that Pershing is riding it. Second, the horse is relatively insignificant.Anythingyouwant (talk) 08:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, apparently Pershing rode a horse alot, I don't know why. On the John J. Pershing article, he is shown on a horse. But we could say "Buckles holding the reins of Pershing's riderless horse". That way they know Pershing isn't on the horse and that it is Pershing's horse. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You can see the model for the statue here. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, it's the last paragraph, which is supposed to sum up the whole article, and that's just not the right place to announce that the people of West Virginia think Buckles may be as praiseworthy as someone's horse. Let's just leave out the horse, would be my suggestion.Anythingyouwant (talk) 15:24, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, to try and better address Malleus' prose concerns, I made a few last-minute edits,[1] but neglected to log in. Sorry about that. I also cut the sentence about the funeral home visitation; like the horse, it's just not significant gven that funeral home visitations occur all the time for lots of people.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:03, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Images and captions

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I just tweaked these a little bit so they display better.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:38, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from 132.3.61.68, 29 July 2011

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In honor of Mr. Frank Buckles, President George W. Bush, and President George Washington, I am asking that you reidentify the roll-over caption when the mouse is pointed at the picture of President Bush and Mr. Buckles. It is a dishonor and disgrace to list the last U.S. WWI vet as "an old man in a wheel chair." It should read, "Frank Buckles, last US WWI veteran." It is a dishonor and disgrace to list a current or former President of the United States as "a middle aged man." It should read "President George W. Bush." And it absolutely repugnant to list the First President and Father of our country as "some historical person." It should read " a portrait of George Washington." I urge you to make these corrections as soon as possible. Thank you. 132.3.61.68 (talk) 14:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The "alt" discription is a simple discription of the image, primarily (I believe) is it used for image speaking software for the blind. It gives a general discription of the image that one couldn't see. You and I can see it is Buckles sitting with Bush with a portrait of Washington over their heads, but someone who is blind can't see that, so the discription would be read by the software and they can better understand what the picture is showing. It isn't meant as insulting, it is actually meant as helpful. You just have to see things (pun not intended) in a different way. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:43, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I share 132.3.61.68's concerns. See in particular the example at WP:ALT#Importance of context— 'Unless it appears in an article on fashion, the alt text should not be "an elderly woman wearing a black hat."'. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 20:16, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
After reading WP:ALT#Importance of context I agree and have made a change to the article. Jnorton7558 (talk) 09:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

it appears this man survived him by a few months, also a WWI vet.

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http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Andrew-Rasch&lc=4041&pid=155026702&mid=4918983&locale=en-US

Long intro

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I'd like to move some of the content from the top. I think there's too much text before the table of contents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewman327 (talk • contribs) 03:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hearing no objection, I'll rework the lede when I get a chance Andrewman327 (talk) 00:16, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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