Talk:Freedomland U.S.A./GA1

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GA Review[edit]

Passing, the article is good to go! Adog (Talk・Cont) 19:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Adog (talk · contribs) 03:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will also take on this GAN for this week. I should be posting my main points on Thursday, August 3, or Saturday, August 5. Adog (Talk・Cont) 03:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following are suggestions for the editor-at-large to implement grammar or sentence structure changes. If the suggestions are improper or not appropriate, you may disregard:

Prose[edit]

Lead[edit]

  • Operating from 1960 to 1964, Freedomland was built on marshland owned by the Webb and Knapp company, of which William Zeckendorf Sr. was the major owner. Not sure if "Operating from 1960 to 1964" is necessary for this sentence, as the operation history is covered later in the lead.
  • The park layout was conceived and built by C. V. Wood, Comma can be removed.
    • Wood conceived the entire park, not just its layout, so I changed it to "The park, conceived and built by C. V. Wood, consisted...". Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • ... and Freedomland opened on June 19, 1960, to large crowds. could be phrased as ... and Freedomland opened to large crowds on June 19, 1960.
  • Because of Freedomland's $65 million construction cost, the park faced financial issues at the time of its opening; "the time of" can be omitted.
  • I know MOS:CITELEAD does not prevent citations in the lead, but I believe the citation in the lead can be moved to the instance where the Plaza Shopping Center is mentioned later on, and/or, add in the part about the indoor mall in the prose.

Creation[edit]

Site

  • In mid-1959, Freedomland Inc. leased the site for a 50-year period. "50-year period" can be "50 years".

Opening

  • The ribbon was officially cut by Pat Boone at 8:30 a.m. reads a little bit awkward, it could be At 8:30 a.m., Pat Boone conducted the official ribbon-cutting ceremony.
    • I changed this to "Pat Boone cut the ribbon at 8:30 a.m." Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The park had a much smaller crowd on its second day of operation, Comma can be removed.

Areas and attractions[edit]

  • Each section featured attractions, shops, and restaurants that fit with the theme of that section. can be Each section featured attractions, shops, and restaurants that fit that section's theme.
  • The following sentences lead, "the property layout was arranged," is a bit wordy. I would suggest something like The arrangement of the property layout resembled a large map of the contiguous United States, fashioned in a manner reminiscent of a movie set.
  • Near the end, there are three instances of "time span". I would replace one (or two) of these with "period", "era", "time", or another synonym.
  • The programs were designed to be interactive: for instance, children were enlisted to participate in fighting a reenacted Great Chicago Fire. feels out of place at the start of this paragraph. Maybe it could fit in the preceding paragraph between sentences "The park also had its own fire department ..." and "Freedomland hosted a competition for its official hostess ..."? I would also insert "performance programs" here for clarity and omit the next usage of it in the paragraph.
  • Like at Disneyland, many of Freedomland's attractions received corporate sponsorships, and alcoholic beverages were banned in Freedomland. Comma is probably not needed before "and".
    • Following the principles in User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences, I think this may be an instance where the comma might be needed, since "alcoholic beverages were banned in Freedomland" could stand as its own sentence in theory. Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Transportation

  • Express bus service was provided from Manhattan, as well as to the Pelham Bay Park and Gun Hill Road subway stations. could be Express bus services extended to Manhattan and to the Pelham Bay Park and Gun Hill Road subway stations.

Intra-park transport

  • The 2 ft (610 mm) Narrow gauge Santa Fe Railroad traveled between the Chicago and San Francisco areas of the park. could be The 2 ft (610 mm) Narrow gauge Santa Fe Railroad traveled between the park's Chicago and San Francisco areas.
  • The next sentence, "in duration" can be "long".

Little Old New York (1850–1900)

  • The two intro sentences deal with geography and repeat "geographically". I would rephrase to The Little Old New York section was geographically located in the north end of the park, closest to the main entrance, and as such, contained an information booth, stroller rental, and lockers. The section depicted New York City as it appeared in the late 19th century.
  • To reduce redundancy for the reader, I would swap "This section" for the area's title, so in the next instance, "The Old Chicago section was located on the ..." and so on and so forth.
  • Naming specific shops and restaurants is a current grey area in WP:APARKS, but I think it is good for this article considering its short-lived basis and that these concessions likely never changed from the park's inception to its closing.
  • Shops included a print shop to purchase vintage-style posters, apothecary shop, glass blower shop ... Missing an "an" before "apothecary" and an "a" before "glass blower".
  • The following sentence may benefit from removing a few words and swapping the structure, for instance: Unlike in Disneyland, where the shops were connected, the stores were generally separated internally, like actual shops on city streets.
  • There was also a live street show that included a German band, an 1880s Tammany Hall speech, political pep rally ... Missing an "a" before "political".

Old Chicago

  • ... located on the western border of the park, south of Old New York could be located on the park's western border, south of Old New York.
  • A kids' section was included, with a junior Santa Fe train, as well as ... "as well as" to "and".

San Francisco

  • An amphitheater with animal acts and big top stunts ... I assume "big top stunts" is human performer stunts, or animal stunts on a larger scale?

A skim read-through of about half the article for grammar and sentence structure checks. The article looks good! I will pick this up Friday morning or Saturday. Adog (Talk・Cont) 05:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unbuilt areas and attractions

  • In addition, the park would have been supplemented by the Freedomland Inn, an off-site hotel south of the park, which would have had between 300 and 600 rooms is a little wordy, I would consider changing to The developers initially planned to supplement the park with Freedomland Inn, an off-site hotel south of the park, which would have contained between 300 and 600 rooms.
  • A link from fountain slab to concrete slab?

Operations[edit]

1960 season

  • I would consider breaking this sentence into two: At the end of that September, local news media reported that Freedomland had failed to pay the city a 5% amusement tax totaling $148,200, though the unpaid tax was resolved by the following week. "$148,200. However, ..."
  • At one point, local merchants refused to accept checks that had been issued by Freedomland. to possibly At one point, local merchants refused to accept checks that Freedomland had issued?

1961 season

  • I would consider breaking this sentence into two: At the end of the 1960 season, park operators initially predicted that the park would reopen in May 1961, though the reopening date was postponed by one month. "1961. However, ..."

1963 season

  • an adjacent 258-acre (104 ha) plot in Baychester, and a development in Dunedin Beach, Florida. "a" can be removed before "development".
    • This refers to a specific development in Dunedin Beach. Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1964 season

  • Staff members were also told that only Little Old New York, Old Chicago, and Satellite City might be open for 1965 and that the rest of the park would be redeveloped. replace "and that" with "while"?

Demise[edit]

Bankruptcy

  • ... if it were downsized 30 acres (12 ha), Freedomland estimated that it could possibly earn a $25,000 profit if it were to reopen in 1965. I would omit "possibly" and change "earn" to "make" since earn appears in the first part.

Causes

  • Disneyland had 6 million guests during 1964 ... "during" for "in"?

Redevelopment

  • ... Bay Plaza Shopping Center was constructed on the land occupied by five additional themed areas of the park. "areas of the park" to "park areas"?

Critical reception[edit]

  • Freedomland in general received negative attention from members of the media. Commas for "in general" or start the sentence with "In general, Freedomland ..."
  • The last part of the sentence with ... Freedomland was generally said to garner reactions of either "ridicule or apathy" runs a bit awkward, might I suggest reactions to Freedomland were noted to provoke either "ridicule or apathy."?
  • The proposal bore large similarities to the Freedomland concept ..., "bore large similarities" for me is awkward, maybe The proposal shared a strong resemblance with the Freedomland concept ...

Legacy[edit]

Site

  • As a result, Co-op City residents proposed changing the lot's zoning to a standard commercial use. "a" might be redundant here, or maybe not. I am not too sure I can read it either way, but it could be proper with or without it.
    • I think the indefinite article is appropriate, since there are actually multiple types of standard commercial zoning in NYC (most of the variations have to do with density). Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Attractions moved to other parks

  • ... Danny the Dragon, interior diorama of the Mine Caverns ... I would add "an" before "interior".
  • "Old Southwest themed" hyphen between "Southwest" and "themed"?

Historical commemoration

  • Two books were published by Acorn Press in the Images of America series; to Acorn Press published two books in the Images of America series;?

References[edit]

  • 9, dang, permanent dead link. Any substitution or physical source?
  • 21 and others, "newspapers.com" to "Newspapers.com"?
    • I think both of these might be correct (I've definitely used both capitalizations in different articles). Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • 175, "Tampa Bay Times" to "St. Petersburg Times". The name change was around 2010, 2011 from what I remember.
  • 214, "www.ny1.com." to "NY1" or "Spectrum News NY1".
  • 216, "Welcome to NYC.gov." to "nyc.gov" like the previous source?
  • 226, "steamboats.com" to just "Online Steamboat Museum" as the publisher?

Additional comments + issues[edit]

I will read through the article thoroughly in a bit, might take an hour. Adog (Talk・Cont) 13:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Addendum: Gonna be more than an hour; something non-urgent but piqued my interest came up. Adog (Talk・Cont) 14:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • MOS:DUPLINK for "New York City Subway's" in "Transportation". Original link is at "subway" in "Construction".

Apologies for the delay. Multiple factors, including fatigue, job pass up, and having to fix something. But the last three notes I have are:

  • The use of square brackets [ ] for operating years in "Areas and attractions" could be changed to round brackets ( ). I think it is better stylistically. Unless you think otherwise.
  • The indoor mall is mentioned in the lead but not in the prose. Unless the mall is the Bay Plaza Shopping Center, or I missed its mention.
  • Is "Email" usually capitalized?

@Epicgenius: That is about it from me. The article looks good! Almost ready for a pass. Adog (Talk・Cont) 01:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Verifiability[edit]

The article cites a variety of reliable sources, with the layout of the references proper. Earwig does not pick up a copyright violation. The largest being around 20% but is properly quoted within the article. Adog (Talk・Cont) 13:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well written + broadness + neutral[edit]

  • The article is well written by the editor-at-large with only minor prose fixes. A general manual of style is followed and aligns with WP:APARKS guide. The article is broad in scope but is focused on the subject and its aftermath and legacy. The article is neutral in tone, with respective praise and criticism for the park's endeavors. Adog (Talk・Cont) 02:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

Images are freely licensed and properly filed. The paperwork is good. Images are relevant to the article. I only wish there was an image of the park itself. Maybe there are not many images of it. Adog (Talk・Cont) 13:01, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the review Adog. I've fixed all of these issues now. Yeah, it is a shame that there aren't many images available - the park closed "only" 60 years ago, which in amusement park terms is a long time, but which in terms of NYC development is only a few generations ago. Unfortunately, Freedomland was so short-lived that there aren't really that many images of the park, let alone any that are freely licensed. If the park had survived to the 1980s or 1990s, there would undoubtedly be better photographic documentation of Freedomland, but as it is, any existing images of the park won't become public domain until the late 2050s. Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably a good thing it did not survive. I think American history amusement parks are doomed to fail in one way or another, such as the mentioned Disney project. The article was a good read. Spot checks clear for content. I did take a train trip across the country this year, and seeing most of these places irl. I wonder how, if the theme park survived today, it would match up against those places realistically or have a Disney-happy spin to it. Maybe if they had built the Florida section and seen the potential of "Florida (wo)man" 60 years out, they could have found success. Alas. Adog (Talk・Cont) 02:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • @Adog, sorry I forgot to reply to your final comments earlier. To answer your questions:
    • I used square brackets to avoid giving the impression that the text in parentheses was part of the name, even though it's unlikely anyone would consider a year range as being part of the name.
    • Part of the Bay Plaza Shopping Center is indoors, but I reworded the lead to remove confusion.
    • "E-mail" is how the New York Times wrote it at the time. Epicgenius (talk) 05:26, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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