Talk:Fritz Springmeier

Article rationale

i have re-introduced the Springmeier page due to the fact that he is a published author of books. And that he has influenced pop culture a d conspiracy culture more than most commentators realise.Ickesshadow (talk) 18:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

All the books appear to be self published.Teapotgeorge^Talk 13:53, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

So what? Countless of other researchers like Atlantis expert, Michael Tsarion, has referenced his work. Fritz work is so informative the satanic government had to fabricate tax evasion charges, like they did with martyr and patriot Bill Cooper. BTW nice NPOV attempt wikipedia K3nluminati (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC).

Yeah, right. Your real complaint is that we are in fact maintaining a neutral point of view. Well, "Be careful of what you ask for -- you might get it." --Orange Mike | Talk 19:32, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

To maintain NPOV, i'd highly recommend there be references of Fritz's letter to David Icke, stating he was framed by federal operatives. Scroll down, after the green text, [1], this also appears on many other sites as well. Worth reading too http://www.henrymakow.com/springmeier.html K3nluminati (talk) 05:08, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you read up on Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. The links you provide do not appear to be within that class. __meco (talk) 16:24, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you quit lying to people, before you end up in the lake of fire. Those sources he gave ARE GOOD SOURCES. Just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't make it any less reliable. You are probably just some Atheist the Illuminati has hired to spread misinformation. Don't you have a life, outside of wikipedia? Nope. Cause you are PAID to lie to people. TheIsraelite777 (talk) 21:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

-- its being scrubbed out. isn't the guy dead now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.204.125.89 (talk) 23:59, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Fritz is very much alive, free, and still publishing. WikiEditorial101 (talk) 07:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I just wonder WHO voted for the deletion of this page... Fritz wrote some of the most important books in the entire world, and I consider him the greatest man of out age. I am immensely grateful for him for spreading the truth. Fritz, if you ever read this page, thank you! You have a really big part in leading me on to the truth and righteousness of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Surely you are one of those who will shine THEN - Dan: 12,3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by TruthfinderX (talk • contribs) 11:13, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

-He just got out of jail not too long ago, but now he is back in jail for whatever reason. Fritz, if you ever read this, you have MANY people supporting your work. Just hold on and stay strong. Paul from the bible spent most of his life in Jail. He even ended up being martyred for the Word of God. We do know if we get martyred, we will definitely make it into the kingdom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheIsraelite777 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I added an update. Fritz Springmeier was again released from prison, on March 25, 2011. I added detail on the court cases. I notice that the article says that his wife was also arrested on the marijuana charge. I don't know her name, but it does not appear that she was indicted, at least not in a case under the same docket number as the marijuana case for Fritz Springmeier. It may be that she was arrested but never formally charged with anything. I added information in the article that clarifies that the marijuana charge against Fritz Springmeier was dropped at the time he was sentenced on the bank robbery and weapons convictions. All the charges (marijuana, bank robbery, and weapons) against Fritz Springmeier were actually made by indictments on the same day (and I added that information to the article as well). I also corrected the time on his sentence. It was not 9 years; it was 9 years and 3 months -- although he was released early, presumably on good behavior. Presumably he can serve the rest of the sentence out on probation. In the federal prison system, you can serve 85% of your time and then get out early on good behavior. Famspear (talk) 04:44, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

• Hi - We don't report on legal dockets. I have removed all your additions. Please stop adding them. Off2riorob (talk) 19:50, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

• note - there is an active report regarding this article at the BLP noticeboard. Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Fritz Springmeier - Off2riorob (talk) 21:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Whether you believe in what he says or not, he is popular online, and deserves this article. A Google search for the name Fritz Springmeier yields 256,000 results in 2011. He is widely quoted, for better or for worse.98.151.10.113 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC).

PS: The statement of another editor to the contrary notwithstanding: Yes, in Wikipedia, we do sometimes use offical court dockets as sources, even if the docket is sometimes considered a primary source. Famspear (talk) 03:58, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Bias and POV

I came here to learn more about this character, but this has to be the most biased article I've read in some time. Given that he has apparently had massive influence on subsequent generations of conspiracy theorists (Alex Jones, Alan Watt) he's definitely of historical interest and deserves to be there. However, this article is just a mess. More verification and rational analysis of who this guy is please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FinalContext (talk • contribs) 13:24, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear FinalContext: You have not identified any bias. You need to be specific. What statement in the article is biased? More specifically, what do you mean by "bias" in the article?

In Wikipedia, we use reliable, previously published third party sources. Those sources are indeed often biased. Here's the news: The bias of a SOURCE in and of itself does not violate the Wikipedia rule on Neutral Point of View. Sources are allowed to be biased.

What Neutral Point of View means is: We strive to present the various biased viewpoints in a neutral way. Famspear (talk) 03:54, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

New Interview

The Alex Jones Show with Fritz Springmeier Monday 10-31-2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnI0cGO8Bvw Video http://wp.alexjonespodcasts.com/2011/october-2011/monday-10-31-2011-the-alex-jones-show-with-fritz-springmeier Audio

He is out of Jail. Mando Salama (talk) 12:27, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Editing blocked

Above the article, it reads: "This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources... (June 2011)" How can anyone add citations/sources? Editing has been blocked by Wikipedia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.151.10.113 (talk • contribs)

Editing is only blocked to anonymous people and new editors. If you've been contributing to the Wikipedia project as an editor, you can edit on this article just like anybody else. We've just blocked the "OMG the Satanists are out to get poor Fritz!" vandals who are afraid to be seen defending him. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:06, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

No, actually "orange mike", you have blocked anyone who has not previously contributed "to the Wikipedia project as an editor". Can you, or can you direct me, to the definition of "editor". Please. thanks, brian. Also, could you define "anonymous" people. I mean that really, mostly anyone, anywhere, on the internet is anonymous - insofar as one cannot really identify them as who they are/claim to be. I trust you follow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.248.126 (talk) 18:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

He means you need to get an account.87.208.10.4 (talk) 05:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 December 2011

The first judge on Fritz's case was not convinced that he was guilty (to say the least) the judge commented to the court he saw no reason to hold him accountable for anything pertaining to the bank robbery he allegedly helped plan. The comments made in this wiki article are bias and suspect, until proof of his guilt is made public it should be considered libelous to call him a bank robber. Pursuant to this is the fact that Fritz has had many people (considered to be of good repute) come forward to lend character reference and public support to him, regardless of what trumped up charges he was imprisoned for. It stands to reason that a person like Fritz who is a successful writer, speaker and Christian activist would not lower himself to bank robbery. It says below wiki content must be verifiable, the article on Fritz as it stands is not.

70.69.244.71 (talk) 16:03, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but he was convicted of armed robbery (I'll check on whether it was a bank or not, though) and served time in Federal prison. I have added more detail to the article. Famspear (talk) 01:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

According to the Court's decision, he was convicted of "armed bank robbery". Actually, what is NOT verifiable is the claim -- by the anonymous person at IP70.69.244.71 -- that the charges were "trumped up." The statement that "a person like Fritz who is a successful writer, speaker and Christian activist would not lower himself to bank robbery" is simply not only not verifiable, it's not even credible. The article does not say that Springmeier is a bank robber. The article says that he was convicted of bank robbery. A statement that someone has been convicted of armed bank robbery where in fact that person has been convicted of armed bank robbery and has served time in federal prison for it is not "libelous." Libel is defined as "a false and unprivileged publication in writing of defamatory material." Black's Law Dictionary, p. 824 (5th ed. 1979). The statement that Springmeier was convicted of armed bank robbery is not false and, therefore, the statement cannot be "libel." Famspear (talk) 03:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I think what IP70... is getting at is that none of the sources mention when or what bank he had supposedly robbed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.59.207 (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. I don't think that IP70's comments have anything to do with whether the sources mention when or what bank he "supposedly" robbed. Further, even if that were what IP70 were saying, the name and location of the bank is somewhat tangential. Bank robbery is illegal (at least in the USA), regardless of the name or location of the bank. Famspear (talk) 05:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The poster wrote that until "proof of his guilt is made public it should be considered libelous to call him a bank robber." That statement is completely off base; it falsely implies that "proof of his guilt" has not been "made public." A criminal conviction means that guilt has been proved, by definition. Famspear (talk) 05:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

PS: Not that it matters but one of the sources (the Southern Poverty Law Center) does indeed mention what apparently was the location of the bank: Damascus, Oregon. The name and location of the bank would almost certainly be somewhere in the court record as well. Famspear (talk) 05:37, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 September 2012

Springmeier is not right wing, neither is he left wing. He is not a religious author. He is Christian and happens to be an author. He does not write religious books. All evidence used against him wasn't found anywhere near his property incriminating him in terrorist-like activities. All the "evidence" was found on Tony Huntington's property whom perjured himself and claimed Springmeier was involved in the robbery, 5 months after Huntington was caught with the guns,etc. He received 3 1/2 years sentence in exchange for his false testimony against Springmeier. Thomasplantard (talk) 10:12, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Thomasplantard: Wikipedia operates on the basis of the use of previously published, reliable third party sources. You would need to located a previously published, reliable third party source for these statements. Famspear (talk) 14:30, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Closing pending reliable sources and per Famspear. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 14:37, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

RfC

BAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Reliable third party sources

The sources quoted are neither reliable nor third party as they are jst reporting a conviction when the man was set up. It's his word against theirs, and you choose to trust theirs, but you only need to read his books or hear him speak to see that he is neither right wing or a terrorist. On the contrary, he is exposing dangerous cults; and the witnesses' word by which he was convicted was not reliable or unbiased either. Therefore this article is biased and unreliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.65.56.137 (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Dear user at IP 46.65.56.137: Yes, the sources are reliable, and yes they are "third parties." There is no valid dispute that the person in question was convicted of a crime -- whether he was "set up" or not. I think what you're really trying to say is that he is a good guy, that he is doing a service by exposing cults, etc., but that is a completely separate issue. And that's your personal opinion. Your feeling that the "witnesses' word by which he was convicted" was "not reliable" or was biased is also your personal opinion. We don't write Wikipedia encyclopedia articles based on the personal opinions of the editors of Wikipedia.

The article is neither biased nor unreliable. When people are aware, from reading this article, that the subject of the article has been convicted of a crime, that awareness may certainly make the reader have negative thoughts about that person -- but that does not make the article itself biased. Famspear (talk) 15:47, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Recent edits

Just posted this to the editor's talk page: he's self-published by Ambassador House, a right wing Christian group[2] and all 3 works in his bibliography are self-published. The Examiner is not a reliable source by our criteria (you can search WP:RSN if you don't believe me) and we have blacklisted any links to it, please remove it and anything sourced to it. I don't understand your rationale for removing the MKUltra stuff. I don't see him mentioned at [3] which is the source for him not being mentioned.... Dougweller (talk) 09:34, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Dougweller,

I appreciate the advice. Earlier I fixed the parts you brought up and removed any blacklisted info referenced on Wikipedia. Shanethegadberry (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:51, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Fritz Springmeier article community discussion on non-administrator editors being blocked from editing the article.

When I joined I began learning about how this community works. Wikipedia is a community for all users to objectively edit it. This Article has been blocked, except for administrators editing it. Isn't that an abuse of administrator powers? Doesn't that go against Wikipedia community guidelines? Shanethegadberry (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Except that we are all bound by the obligations to neutral point-of-view, reliable sourcing, etc. Instead, you were turning the article into a defense of the guy and his theories, and a whitewash of his criminal conviction. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Dear Shanethegardberry: This article has not been "blocked" in the way you describe. The ability to edit this article is not limited to Wikipedia administrators. For example, I am not an administrator, and I can edit the article. Famspear (talk) 19:16, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Oops, correction. Apparently I cannot edit the article at this time. I didn't notice that. Hmmm...... Famspear (talk) 19:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Doug, Fam, do you think I should down-shift to semi-protected? I'm just trying to keep NPOV here. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually I'd unprotect it as I don't think that was required here - these were the first edits since May, although I note that they were very similar before my intervention. Dougweller (talk) 20:37, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I meant to add that even though I am an Administrator, I should not be editing the article and I'd like to! And I don't see enough IP editing to warrant SP. Dougweller (talk) 20:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I would unprotect it for a while and see how it goes. Famspear (talk) 12:01, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

The community consensus has noted it is time to unprotect this article. If there are concerns of abuse, at least make it semi-protected. This guy might be a criminal, but he has a story. If sources are available it should be included in nopv. His birth father worked for the United States government as an agricultural engineer. His wife is a reporter and documented her claims that he was not a "white separatist" or "Ultra right wing extremist." US Vice President Joe Biden called out to the nations of the world to "Create a New World Order" this year. That is the thesis of this article. Even if this Springmeier guy was a criminal, his new world order claims appear to be true. To not include these sources is a violation of Wikipedia’s WP:NPOVT policy on articles. Shanethegadberry (talk) 08:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

The only thesis of this article is Springmeier's biography, not a discussion of some NWO. And there's a reason we have two articles on the phrase New World Order - what Biden meant is not what Springmeier is talking about (unless of course you are a conspiracy theorist). And most of your sources fail our criteria anyway Dougweller (talk) 09:52, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

I reviewed the article today and noticed two missing objective facts from it. Born Viktor E. Schoof, he became a conspiracy researcher and author in the 1990s, changing his name to Fritz Springmeier. He grew up with his father, who worked for the United States Agency for International Development. Why havent these objective facts been included? This is core information and must be included in the article. Please add this or open up the article to WP:SPP. Shanethegadberry (talk) 12:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

References

Edit protected

Please change the {{pp-semi-blp}} template for {{pp-protected}}. Thanks. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 03:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Done --Redrose64 (talk) 08:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request - date formats

In order to remove this article from Category:CS1 errors: dates, could someone make the following edits:

• Change |date=Oct 30 2009 (update) to |date=Oct 30, 2009
• Remove "TONY HUNTINGTON--The Missing Link" from the last reference (appears to have been added in this edit from 2011

Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:30, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the fixes. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 21:57, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 14 January 2014

Eliminate |small=yes from the template, so the banner will be more visible than a small icon. George Ho (talk) 03:11, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Unprotected. I've reduced the protection to semi-protection instead. This is on a trial basis - if the problems recur I have no problem with reinstating full protection. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 23:39, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Regarding citation 1

Regarding citation 1 in the article: "also known as" (source) is not the same as "Born" (article), is it? 66.41.179.140 (talk) 05:21, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Please clarify your question; I'm not sure what you are asking here. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

OK, I see what he's asking. The article as presently worded says that Springmeier was "born" under a different name, but the cited material only says that Springmeier is also "known as" the other name. We should change the article to agree to what the source is actually saying. Famspear (talk) 17:43, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Confusion over last name

The article cites to a source that says that Springmeier has also been known as Viktor "Schoff." However, the article also links to another article that repeatedly shows his father's last name to be spelled "Schoof." Not sure what is correct here. Famspear (talk) 04:49, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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