Talk:German Reich

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successor state

The following has been flagged as needing to be clarified:

"The Federal Republic of Germany asserted, following its establishment in 1949, that within its boundaries it was the sole legal continuation of the German Reich; and consequently not a successor state."

I am lost as to why the distinction between 'successor state' and 'legal continuation' should be tricky. Maybe other editors might propose a different terminology. I understand a successor state as being a new state created out of a defunct state; so the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic are both successor states to Czechoslovakia. But the post-1990 Federal Republic of Germany is the legal continuation of the pre-1990 Federal Republic of Germany. And claims to be the legal continuation of the German Reich - even though it is in no way the legal continuation of Nazi Germany. How might this point be expressed better? TomHennell (talk) 18:11, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

We should see the orignal source where it's coming from. It could mean not a new succesor state has been created, but legally continued the German Reich after 1945, in which other constitutional changes took place, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC))

source is here: https://law.utexas.edu/transnational/foreign-law-translations/german/case.php?id=589

the key passage; "With the setting up of the Federal Republic of Germany it was not a new West German State that was founded, but part of Germany that was newly organized (cf. Carlo Schmid at the 6th session of the Parliamentary Council - StenBer. p.70). The Federal Republic of Germany is accordingly not the "legal successor" of the German Reich, but is as a State identical with the State called the "German Reich" - though as far as its spatial extension is concerned "partially identical", so that to that extent the identity does not lay claim to exclusivity."

was

I am not sure what you understand by "legally continued the German Reich after 1945, in which other constitutional changes took place." There were no constitutional changes to the German Reich in 1945, since the German Reich had then no valid constitutional 'organisation', and had not had for many years. The Federal Constitutional Court deliberately avoided spelling out when the Reich had ever previously existed in constitutional organisation; it was common ground that the Reich could only have validly been organised as a Rechtsstaat, but the FCC seem to have held furthermore that the Reich could only have been fully organised as a liberal democracy. TomHennell (talk) 10:05, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I think we are done, practically what you say I said as well, but with different words. As the quote proves, it could not be the legal successor since no new state has been founded, but the state has been tansformed from the German Reich, hence the continuation. What said I meant averagely, since the constitution have been changed after the war, not namely in a year. About "no valid constitutional 'organisation'" is a POV, since interpretations may differ, as well recognition back over time in spite of the the happenings and evaluation then, so it's useless to enter to that issue.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC))

Fair enough; though when the FCC talked of the Federal Republic as 'organising' the Reich, it certainly did not understand this as 'transforming' the Reich; as the German Reich in 1945 had no 'form' to change. Hence the Basic Law of the Federal Republic was adopted as tabula rasa in a condition of constitutional nullity; 'rebuilt from the ground up' in the terminology of the FCC.

I have removed the clarification request; as it appears the original text could stand on its merits. TomHennell (talk) 15:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Jewish Holocaust 1945 - The crisis of The Nazis

Jews have lived in Europe for more than two thousand years. The American Jewish Yearbook placed the total Jewish population of Europe at about 9.5 million in 1933. This number represented more than 60 percent of the world's Jewish population, which was estimated at 15.3 million. Most European Jews resided in eastern Europe, with about 5 1/2 million Jews living in Poland and the Soviet Union. Before the Nazi takeover of power in 1933, Europe had a dynamic and highly developed Jewish culture. In little more than a decade, most of Europe would be conquered, occupied, or annexed by Nazi Germany and most European Jews—two out of every three—would be dead.

NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS, 1933–39 Nazi concentration camps, 1933-1939 The first concentration camps in Germany were established soon after Hitler's appointment as chancellor in January 1933. The Storm Troopers (SA) and the police established concentration camps to handle the masses of people arrested as alleged political opponents of the regime. These camps were established on the local level throughout Germany. Gradually, most of these early camps were disbanded and replaced by centrally organized concentration camps under the exclusive jurisdiction of the SS (Schutzstaffel; the elite guard of the Nazi state). By 1939, seven large concentration camps had been established. Besides Dachau, they were Sachsenhausen (1936) north of Berlin, Buchenwald (1937) near Weimar, Neuengamme (1938) near Hamburg, Flossenbürg (1938), Mauthausen (1938), and Ravensbrück (1939).

EUROPEAN RAIL SYSTEM, 1939 European rail system, 1939 The European rail network played a crucial role in the implementation of the Final Solution. Jews from Germany and German-occupied Europe were deported by rail to killing centers in occupied Poland, where they were killed. The Germans attempted to disguise their intentions, referring to deportations as "resettlement to the east." The victims were told they were to be taken to labor camps, but in reality, from 1942 onward, deportation meant transit to killing centers for most Jews. Deportations on this scale required the coordination of numerous German government ministries, including the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA), the Transport Ministry, and the Foreign Office. The RSHA coordinated and directed the deportations; the Transport Ministry organized train schedules; and the Foreign Office negotiated with German-allied states to hand over their Jews.

"EUTHANASIA" CENTERS, GERMANY 1940-1945 "Euthanasia" centers, Germany 1940-1945 In Nazi usage, "euthanasia" referred to the systematic killing of those Germans whom the Nazis deemed "unworthy of life" because of alleged genetic diseases or defects. Beginning in the fall of 1939, gassing installations were established at Bernburg, Brandenburg, Grafeneck, Hadamar, Hartheim, and Sonnenstein. Patients were selected by doctors and transferred from clinics to one of these centralized gassing installations and killed. After public outrage forced an end to centralized killings, doctors instead administered lethal injections to those selected for "euthanasia" in clinics and hospitals throughout Germany. In this way, the "euthanasia" program continued and expanded until the end of World War II.

PERSECUTION OF ROMA (GYPSIES), 1939-1945 Persecution of Roma (Gypsies), 1939-1945 Roma (Gypsies) were among the groups singled out on racial grounds for persecution by the Nazi regime. Roma were subjected to internment, deportation, and forced labor, and were sent to killing centers. Einsatzgruppen also killed tens of thousands of Roma in the German-occupied eastern territories. The fate of the Roma closely paralleled that of Jews.

MAJOR GHETTOS IN OCCUPIED EUROPE Major ghettos in occupied Europe During World War II, the Germans established ghettos mainly in eastern Europe (between 1939 and 1942) and also in Hungary (in 1944). These ghettos were enclosed districts of a city in which the Germans forced the Jewish population to live under miserable conditions. The Germans regarded the establishment of Jewish ghettos as a provisional measure to control, isolate, and segregate Jews. Beginning in 1942, after the decision had been made to kill the Jews, the Germans systematically destroyed the ghettos, deporting the Jews to extermination camps where they were killed.

MAJOR NAZI CAMPS IN EUROPE, JANUARY 1944 Major Nazi camps in Europe, January 1944 Throughout German-occupied Europe, the Germans arrested those who resisted their domination and those they judged to be racially inferior or politically unacceptable. People arrested for resisting German rule were mostly sent to forced-labor or concentration camps. The Germans deported Jews from all over occupied Europe to extermination camps in Poland, where they were systematically killed, and also to concentration camps, where they were used for forced labor. Transit camps such as Westerbork, Gurs, Mechelen, and Drancy in western Europe and concentration camps like Bolzano and Fossoli di Carpi in Italy were used as collection centers for Jews, who were then deported by rail to the extermination camps. According to SS reports, there were more than 700,000 prisoners registered in the concentration camps in January 1945.

KILLING CENTERS IN OCCUPIED POLAND, 1942 Killing centers in occupied Poland, 1942 Killing centers (also referred to as "extermination camps" or "death camps") were designed to carry out genocide. Between 1941 and 1945, the Nazis established six killing centers in former Polish territory—Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz-Birkenau (part of the Auschwitz complex), and Majdanek. Chelmno and Auschwitz were established in areas annexed to Germany in 1939. The other camps (Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Majdanek) were established in the Generalgouvernement (General Government) of Poland. Both Auschwitz and Majdanek functioned as concentration and forced-labor camps as well as killing centers. The overwhelming majority of the victims of the killing centers were Jews. An estimated 3.5 million Jews were killed in these six killing centers as part of the Final Solution. Other victims included Roma (Gypsies) and Soviet prisoners of war.

MAJOR DEPORTATIONS TO KILLING CENTERS, 1942-1944 Major deportations to killing centers, 1942-1944 At the Wannsee Conference in Berlin in January 1942, the SS (the elite guard of the Nazi state) and representatives of German government ministries estimated that the "Final Solution," the Nazi plan to kill the Jews of Europe, would involve 11 million European Jews, including those from non-occupied countries such as Ireland, Sweden, Turkey, and Great Britain. Jews from Germany and German-occupied Europe were deported by rail to the killing centers in occupied Poland, where they were killed. The Germans attempted to disguise their intentions, referring to deportations as "resettlement to the east." The victims were told they were to be taken to labor camps, but in reality, from 1942 onward, deportation for most Jews meant transit to killing centers and then death.

MAJOR NAZI CAMPS IN GREATER GERMANY, 1944 Major Nazi camps in Greater Germany, 1944 The Nazi camp system expanded rapidly after the beginning of World War II in September 1939, as forced labor became important in war production. Labor shortages in the German war economy became critical after German defeat in the battle of Stalingrad in 1942-1943. This led to the increased use of concentration camp prisoners as forced laborers in German armaments industries. Especially in 1943 and 1944, hundreds of subcamps were established in or near industrial plants. Subcamps were generally smaller camps administered by the main camps, which supplied them with the required number of prisoners. Camps such as Auschwitz in Poland, Buchenwald in central Germany, Gross-Rosen in eastern Germany, Natzweiler-Struthof in eastern France, Ravensbrueck near Berlin, and Stutthof near Danzig on the Baltic coast became administrative centers of huge networks of subsidiary forced-labor camps.

I Major death marches and evacuations, 1944-1945 In January 1945, the Third Reich stood on the verge of military defeat. As Allied forces approached Nazi camps, the SS organized death marches of concentration camp inmates, in part to keep large numbers of concentration camp prisoners from falling into Allied hands. The term "death march" was probably coined by concentration camp prisoners. It referred to forced marches of concentration camp prisoners over long distances under heavy guard and extremely harsh conditions. During death marches, SS guards brutally mistreated the prisoners and killed many. The largest death marches were launched from Auschwitz and Stutthof.

The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its allies and collaborators. The Nazis came to power in Germany in January 1933. They believed that the Germans belonged to a race that was "superior" to all others. They claimed that the Jews belonged to a race that was "inferior" and a threat to the so-called German racial community.

By 1945, the Germans and their allies and collaborators killed nearly two out of every three European Jews as part of the "Final Solution." 2A02:C7F:F2A1:6100:FC2D:9B0C:FEE5:9E12 (talk) 10:07, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Operation Lionheart

Operation Lionheart. A very vast number of men going to the boundaries of a Vichie, Germany had a plan to take over Britain by establishing points of interest of building concentration camps in the south coast of the British. And fully take over and pot down occupy it then starts rebound to the north of East Anglia by abolishing Norwich to Stalwich, so as that OCR goes down and up all there and round, they officially want scotland and wales and SIRSJ them to a German Catch (Puppet) then as saint they do that they absolutely bomb the whole of England then surrounds London. Takes occasion on it. This is only their plan but never worked out well.. 2A02:C7F:F2A1:6100:FC2D:9B0C:FEE5:9E12 (talk) 10:18, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Possible Mistake Fixed

In the Divided Germany part, it says: "As of 1974, East Germany's official stance was that the GDR was a new state that is German in nature, a successor of the German Empire,[17]..."

I highly doubt that the GDR considered itself a successor of the German Empire (1971-1918), and I think the "German Empire" used in the article is instead the German Reich (1871-1945).

Thus I changed it to German Reich, so that users won't confuse it with the German Empire (1871-1918). 78.167.1.112 (talk) 18:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)