Talk:German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs) 21:40, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll get to this shortly.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:40, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No DABs, external links OK.
Images appropriately licensed.
Why is displacement in long tons when most everything else is metric?
- Cause we're post WNT ;) Also, those are the figures Gröner gives them in.
  - The metric conversion is actually provided in the WNT for the Frogs and everyone else who uses that system ;-)
If available, actual pressure of her boilers is a good thing supplement "ultra-high pressure".
- I'll have a look later to see if Gröner has the figure.
I'm a bit suspicious of your conversions as they're too rounded. I'd suggest that you either add a "|1" to your templates for all your meter to feet conversions or specify output in feet and inches.
- Should be fixed now
Nmi or km for range figures?
- Not sure how that got flipped in the infobox...
Too many "and"s 12 navalized Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bombers and thirty Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters and Fieseler Fi 167 torpedo bombers
- Nope, it was right - for some reason, Gröner lumps the Bf 109s and Fi 167s into the same figure - Reynolds does, however, so I'll fix it.
Missing a comma here: ten 10.5 cm SK C/33 guns—later increased to twelve—twenty-two 3.7 cm SK C/30 guns, and twenty-eight 2 cm guns
- Hmm, where would you put it? We've exceeded my knowledge of grammar ;)
  - And maybe even my own. Ordinarily you'd have a comma after the 105s, but the emdashes complicate things as I'm not sure that I've ever seen an emdash immediately followed by a comma. Maybe ask Dank?
    - Let's ping him and see if he can lend us a hand: @Dank:, a little help please?
Gotta link for Wotan armor?
- No, but I have a note on it somewhere - will dig it up.
I think that the term is usually "plunging attacks" rather than "vertical", but maybe that's just me.
- Plunging fire is usually only used for gunfire, not aerial attacks, IMO - will switch it to "aerial" for clarity
Make the connection between Graf Zeppelin and Flugzeugträger A on first use. Probably also ought to translate the latter term as well.
- Done and done.
heavier sturdier perhaps a comma? And here as well: According to Soviet records, on 19 March 1947 the Council of Ministers
- Fixed both
25-26 en dash please
- Good catch - didn't find that when I was overhauling the text - this is why I prefer to write things from scratch...
Convert 5,500 lb and 180 mm.
- Done
Clarify that the facts on her post-war fate given by Western historians were really speculations.
- A good point.
Link warhead.
- Done.
Format for the Whitley articles is inconsistent and incorrect, unless one is a journal issue and the other is the bound volume. If both are the latter then here's an example of the proper formatting: {{cite book|last=Campbell|first=N.J.M.|title=Warship|chapter=The Battle of Tsu-Shima, Parts 2, 3 and 4|editor=Preston, Antony|publisher=Conway Maritime Press|location=London|year=1978|volume=II|pages=127–35, 186–192, 258–65|isbn=0-87021-976-6}}
- This is going to take some digging - can't remember if I have these or not.
  - The individual issues are kinda scarce and they're most readily available in bound format in libraries.
    - Yeah, that's more than likely where they came from - the trouble is getting the volume, page numbers, etc. I might just have to replace the citations to them. I have a couple of WI articles that might suit the purpose - traveling tonight, so maybe tomorrow morning.
      - I've got these books; the page numbers don't change since the magazines are bound into the book. Part I is in Vol VIII 0-85177-354-0 and part II is Vol. IX 0-87021-984-7. Pub is USNI.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        Thanks, updated the refs.
Magazines need ISSN #s and a few books need ISBNs or OCLC #s.
- Made some progress on this, still one or two outstanding, apart from the Whitleys.
  - Should all be tidied up now. Had to pull the Breyer ref as I couldn't find any details on that book. Parsecboy (talk) 19:18, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Sturmvogel 66: - anything left to address here? Parsecboy (talk) 18:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Sturmvogel 66: - anything else? I'd say that most of ÄDA's comments are beyond the scope of the GA criteria and should probably be addressed before ACR/FAC. Parsecboy (talk) 18:01, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by ÄDA-DÄP[edit]

A few observations:

Design

The change from metric to imperial needs an explanation for the uninitiated, a few words on Washington, the Anglo-German Naval Treaty and the standard tonnage are in order, I guess.
- Standard displacement should be linked, but I'm not sure that the rest of your comments are really necessary given the treaty had only a theoretical impact on the ship and her design.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:10, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Graf Zeppelin would be one of the few ships which were actually affected.ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gun calibers are not converted, while everything else is.
- If it's linked, it doesn't need a conversion.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:10, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rarely implemented though.ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Construction and and cancellation

After the launch it would seem appropriate to call her Graf Zeppelin, the name change had nothing to do with the conquest of Norway.
- Good idea.Y
Footnote 14 (Luke, p. 50) does not check out. Weight, date and number of planes differ from the text.
- Will have to check this - I don't have Luke myself.
Dönitz was Commander of Submarines until he replaced Raeder, so if my grammar doesn't fault me, the "former" should be dropped.
- Works for me.Y
Wouldn't "roadstead" merit a link?
- SureY
A "custodial crew" on a ship is called a skeleton crew, isn't it?
- LinkedY
Breyer is listed twice, published in 1989 (Schiffer) and in 2004. While the inline citation lacks a year, I guess it's the 2004 publication?
- Removed the refs to Breyer per above.Y

ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 18:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

- - I have Lake and fixed the cited material. Your definition of Wotan is messed up. Did you mean a breaking strength of x kg/mm2? If so, then converted it as well.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:47, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - You're right, I was missing half of the unit. Fixed now. Parsecboy (talk) 22:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if Luke is to be trusted on these. Marshall (Fn 15) gives much more detail on the raid, which conflicts with Luke's version, though.ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Don't have Marshall. Dunno about Parsec, but if you do, then I suggest fixing it yourself.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:09, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All I have are snippets of the German translation on Google Books. Enough to falsify but not exactly RS, sorry. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 18:19, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have either source, the material is from the version before I started working on the article. Nothing I have (Breyer, Schenk, etc.) goes into much detail on the raid. Parsecboy (talk) 22:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

More construction and cancellation

date of order (16 November 1935) is missing
- Added.
the explanation for the 13 month delay is that Gneisenau had to be launched first to make room in slipway 1.
- Added
re launching ceremony it might be worth mentioning that Göring gave the speech and Zeppelin's daughter christened the ship (Israel, 1994, pp.67-9).
- Added.
the launch date is also significant (24th anniversary of the Battle of Falkland Islands).
- Added

Wotan: according to Israel 1994, p.76, they used 20mm armor plating "Wotan hart neuer Art" (Wh n/A) on the flight deck, and "St 52 KM" for the rest reaching 45mm of strength near the elevators.

"Zerreißfestigkeit" would be tear resistance, wouldn't it? Wh had "95 Kpa per mm2"
Wotan was developed by Krupp for the German navy.

ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]