Talk:Gettysburg Address/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Influences, Hungary

I clipped this sentence. Is there some reason to believe Lincoln was aware of this speech? Not from the footnote, as far as I can tell.

"Lincoln was probably influenced by Lajos Kossuth—the former governor-president of Hungary—who gave a speech before the Ohio State Legislature in February 1852: "The spirit of our age is Democracy. All for the people, and all by the people. Nothing about the people without the people—That is Democracy! […]"[1]"

Kaisershatner (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Kossuth was VERY well known in US in 1851-52 and Lincoln devoured the political newspapers. My guess is that he probably read the speech Kossuth gave in Ohio. Pressly says Lincoln was very active in Springfield in getting resolutions passed to support the Hungarians and he took the lead in Jan 1852 in inviting Kossuth to Springfield (he did not come). Kossuth used the phrase the next month in Ohio. [see Lincoln Collected Works 2:115-116]. No one has found evidence of a linkage to Gettysburg but there has been some speculation. All the main historians have ignored the speculation. So it's a fringe idea and wiki should ignore it in my opinion. Lincoln & Kossuth see Pressly, Thomas J. "Bullets and Ballots: Lincoln and the" Right of Revolution"." The American Historical Review 67.3 (1962): 647-662 at p 651 online. Speculation = Steven Bela Vardy, "Louis Kossuth's Words in Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address," Eurasian Studies Yearbook 71 (1999): 27-32 [not online--I have not seen it]. also Dénes, Iván Zoltán. "Reinterpreting a'Founding Father': Kossuth Images and Their Contexts, 1848-2009." East Central Europe 37.1 (2010): 90-117 at p 91 -- this is online at http://www.ae-info.org/attach/User/D%C3%A9nes_Iv%C3%A1n/Highlight/denes_ivan_Kossuth_ECEU.pdf. Rjensen (talk) 18:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ “All For the People, and All By the People” – Lajos Kossuth’s Fight for Hungarian Independence ohiohistoryhost.org

Featured article review needed

This Featured article has not been maintained to WP:WIAFA standards since its 2008 review. There is uncited text, and the layout is a mess, with MOS:SANDWICHing and unsightly templates. The article should be brought to standard or submitted to WP:FAR. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:37, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Lincoln's Sources: Herndon's recommendation of Parker's sermon of 4 July 1858: graphic

After the indented paragraph quote from Herndon, I suggest you insert the cover and two key pages from Rev. Theodore Parker's sermon, which is on the internet archive in the original. I will create an account (which I've never bothered to do before) so I can upload my screenshots. 98.211.66.160 (talk) 17:12, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Further Update: It looks like it worked, but I got a message saying "we could not process your edit due to loss of session data."

Let's try the cover page:

Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2021

Lincoln's statement is a quote from the Talmud, Tractate Yoma, page 19b, that the Priests firming the government were both servants of the Lord as well as servants of the People, and came "of the people, by the people and for the people". It is the basis of the tripartite Priestly Blessing. The Priests bless the Congregation, but only word for word what we tell them to say. So with all true public servants.

Hope it helps 2A00:A040:198:D49B:8D60:1811:97E5:18E6 (talk) 12:06, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:08, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Photographs of Lincoln

In the caption under the first image, it states "One of the two confirmed photos of Lincoln" despite there only being one definitive picture confirmed unanimously by historians; that being discovered by US National Archivist Josephine Cobb in 1952.[1] [2] There is although, infact 'two' other 'speculated' photograph as of 2021; Of which are actually a series of 4 images due to the type of camera Alexander Gardners production used (Stereoscopy). One being found by John Richter in 2007 [3] [4] [5] the other being found by Christopher Oakley in 2013. [6]

Both images are contested by various historians;[7] and being in the same photograph,[8] obviously only one is "real" assuming either are infact actually lincoln at all. although currently, it would appear more historians are seemingly siding with Oakleys discovery as being more plausible [9], although this could be a result of hearsay and circular sourcing.

"Someone" has created a Wiki page on Christopher Oakley using his own website as citation. It also claimed as a matter of fact that Oakley had indeed discovered a picture of Lincoln, but had no context and used no citation, I have gone ahead and corrected this to state what has been explained above, albeit in simpler terms. [10]

There is no mention under Contemporary sources and reactions/ Photographs of the 'secondary' images, and given the ambiguity behind them, perhaps it should stay that way. although this in of itself is ambiguous and to be left to the decision of the community.

this has been mentioned several times before in the talk pages and can be found within the archives, despite this, it was never addressed, I suspect due to a small amount of coverage resulting in complexity behind establishing exactly who discovered what photo and the establishing points supporting each individuals claims.

156.57.138.163 (talk) 23:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Museum Week Woman in Culture". US National Archives Twitter.
  2. ^ "Josehine Cobbs' Lincoln". Friends of Lincoln Collection. FoLC & National Archive.
  3. ^ "Honestly, is that really Abe in 3-D?". USA Today. Greg Toppo.
  4. ^ "Richters' Lincoln closeup". John Richter.
  5. ^ "Richters' Lincoln blown out". John Richter.
  6. ^ "Oakleys' Lincoln Albeit with subjective captioning".
  7. ^ "Lincoln Found in Gettysburg Photo? civil debate waged". CBS News. Stephen smith.
  8. ^ "Interactive: Seeking lincoln at gettysburg". Smithsonian Magazine. Interactive by 5WInfographics; Text by Brian Wolly.
  9. ^ "Will the Real Abraham Lincoln Please Stand Up?". SmithsonianMagazine. Franz Lidz.
  10. ^ "Christopher Oakley".

Minor error in the quoted Bliss version

In the section 'Text' the quoted Bliss version of the address reads 'Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent' whereas it should be 'Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent' in this version. This can be confirmed in the image of the Bliss version further down this same article.

I know it's a tiny thing, but it's relevant to a puzzle I'm writing, which will fall apart if solvers navigate to an incorrect version of this text! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:147B:1B00:5FA:F3EC:ED55:D4A9 (talk) 13:53, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2021

In the section 'Text', change 'Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent' to 'Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent' as this is the correct wording for the Bliss version (as can be seen in the image of the Bliss version further down in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address#/media/File:Gettysburg_Address_Bliss_copy.jpg).

My apologies, I originally added this observation to the talk page for this article - hopefully I have correctly followed procedure now! 2A02:C7F:147B:1B00:B060:1786:ED4C:8468 (talk) 19:23, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

 Done Signed, I Am Chaos (talk) 19:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
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