Talk:Gongxi Gongxi

This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

China

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool as Stub-class because it uses a stub template. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Songs

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool as Stub-class because it uses a stub template. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Wrong title

The title is obviously wrong. Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity is Gong Xi Fa Cai (恭喜发财), not Gong Xi Gong Xi (恭喜恭喜) which just means congratulations or wishing you happiness. Hzh (talk) 00:20, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not wrong! Yusheng02 (talk) 02:50, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Misguided rename

Editor @AjaxSmack recently renamed this article on the song "Gong Xi Gong Xi" to "Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity". The edit summaries justified this move with WP:UE use English.

By this logic, shall we rename the article La Marseillaise to "The Woman from Marseille?"

The move was misguided for several reasons:

"Wishing you happiness and prosperity" has another use as the English version of a very popular Chinese New Year greeting.
Said phrase is not the translation of Gong Xi Gong Xi. Nor is it first line of the song, it does not even occur.
Google-searching the English web finds many references to this song under its Chinese name, written as Gong Xi Gong Xi or GongXi GongXi. Respectively 303,000 and 37,000 references in English web pages. This is hardly an obscure name.
But google-searching "Wishing you happiness and prosperity" catches this song largely as a component of broader New Year customs.

I haven't found a widely-used English name for this song aside from the transliterated one. I think the analogy to renaming La Marseillaise to The Woman from Marseille is apt. -- M.boli (talk) 15:56, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My rationale for moving the article was WP:RMUM, i.e. reverting an undiscussed and unrationalized move, and returning to its original title. My text edits were to match the text to the title.

The analogy to renaming La Marseillaise to The Woman from Marseille does not hold. "La Marseillaise" is not commonly called "The Woman from Marseille" in English. The song in question here, on the other hand, is not so commonly called "Gong Xi Gong Xi" in English. E Ven as a trans lit e ra tion of the Chi Nese, that ti tle vi o lates the rules of pin yin (nb WP:PINYIN) with the insertion of superfluous spaces.

Though I am biased—I just noticed I chose the original title—a title change like this should be conducted through the move request process, since "Gong Xi Gong Xi" violates both WP:UCN and WP:PINYIN.

Web searches and Google Books results don't really help because gōngxǐ gōngxǐ (恭喜恭喜) simply means "congratulations" in numerous contexts,[1] and is also far more commonly a Chinese New Year greeting than a reference to the song. Likewise, the various English titles are words or phrases with a variety of other uses ("Congratulations - A Happy New Year Song" &c.). And there aren't a lot of authoritative English-language texts that deal with the song. — AjaxSmack 18:24, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I understand all that, but yet I think the evidence is pretty strong that the song in English is commonly referred to as "Gong Xi Gong Xi".

Google searching "Wishing you happiness and prosperity" gets 171k results. Very few seem to be about the song. Aside from this Wikipedia article (result #1), among the first 50-ish results numbers 8 and 53 were about the song. The others in the first 50-ish were not.
Google searching "Gong Xi Gong Xi" gets 246k results (down from a few hours ago!). Among the first 50 results, I think 47 specifically are about the song and refer to the song with this name.

Of course counting google-hits isn't a substitute for finding references, you can't cite "number of google hits". But I claim that this is reasonable evidence.

Having done that, it wasn't too hard to find some references for the song name in a variety of English-language texts.

The name of the song is "Gong xi gong xi" throughout this CBC news article: "The dark history behind one of Lunar New Year's most popular songs". CBC. January 24, 2020.
Music lessons from Carnegie Hall: "Lesson 2: Learning "Gong Xi Gong Xi"". Musical Explorers. Carnegie Hall.
CGTN America, China's state TV propaganda channel, named the song "Gong Xi Gong Xi" in this video of its staff learning the song "CGTN America staffers sing "Gong Xi Gong Xi"". CGTN America. February 18, 2018.. CGTN is listed as deprecated in WP:RPS, but it might be OK as a reference for the name of a Chinese song.

Regarding WP:PINYIN: of course the name in normal pinyin is "gongxi gongxi". But in the English web "gong xi gong xi" is roughly an order of magnitude more common as the name for this song. And that is the name I find most frequently in anything that might be an appropriate reference. I think it really is the common name.

Regarding WP:RMUM: there was a short discussion on the appropriateness of "Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity" on this page, immediately above. One person challenged it, another said it was correct. That second editor--the one who said it was correct--is the editor who later renamed the page to Gong Xi Gong Xi.

So the rename away from W.Y.H.P. was discussed, and both participants ultimately came out in favor. The page has remained Gong Xi Gong Xi for five and a half years since then with no complaint. RMUM says if the page was moved without discussion (not really), recently (not really), then it can be moved back.

Anyway that's my two cents. Another note: I think that if this page retains its current name -- which is the English version of a popular New Year greeting -- then at a minimum we should add a hatnote pointing people at the Wikipedia section relevant to that usage. -- M.boli (talk) 02:35, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe @Yusheng02, the editor who moved this page to "Gong Xi Gong Xi" five years ago, has something to add? -- M.boli (talk) 15:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your research. I don't have a strong opinion about the title* except that a) a decision should be policy based as far as possible (e.g. WP:UE. WP:UCN) and more importantly b) that it be done through the WP:RM process to cast a wider net of editors rather than through a divination of a couple of cryptic talk page comments. (* I do oppose the WP:PINYIN violation pretty strongly. The Ching Lish fa sci na tion with spa ces be tween sy la bles is an amateur style choice that should not be indulged at Wikipedia. I'm fine with Gongxi Gongxi or Gongxi Gongxi (song) depending on the input of other editors.) — AjaxSmack 17:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence that the English title for this song is actually "Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity" in public. This title seems too absurd, and the translation is too inaccurate. No policy is required for this decision to change the title, and it would be hard to translate a title with no clear English meaning. Yusheng02 (talk) 16:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All right, I take it back. The song was called "Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity" in some media, but it still seems wrong. The media must have had been influenced by the said English title here on Wikipedia. I know I said that "Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity" was not wrong before, but then I found that the word "prosperity" in the title was the English meaning for fācái （发财）, thus making me realize that "Wishing You Happiness and Prosperity" was indeed wrong. That is the reason I had to change the title afterward. Yusheng02 (talk) 06:02, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest we go back to Gong Xi Gong Xi

Again this page is on the move. I suggest that Gong Xi Gong Xi would be a good name for the page, as that is what the song is known by in Engish.

Google search "gong xi gong xi" (with the quotes, for exact match) produces 379,000 results. Spot checking the first few pages, they are all for the song, all on the English language web.
Searching the more standard pinyin "gongxi gongxi" produces 48,500 results. Again they are the right song, but it is much less common on the English language web.
"Wishing you happiness and prosperity" is of course the translation of a very popular new year greeting which is not this song. There are 179,000 search results. In the first few pages of google results some are indeed this song. But as you page down, quickly it becomes clear that the majority are related to new year greetings or new year in general, not this song.
Google searching "felicitations" and "chinese" (the current title) gets a few results related to this song primarily through the current Wikipedia entry. I agree that "felicitations" is semantically defensible, a good English word which captures the meaning of the name, but is not how the song is normally called in English.

Gong Xi Gong Xi is by far the most common name for this song in English. And yes, the name of the song is 2 Chinese words, not 4, and thus this four word collocation is strange to a Chinese speaker. But that is what the song is referred to in English. Overwhelmingly. As long as the page is being renamed, I suggest that we go back to Gong Xi Gong Xi. -- M.boli (talk) 02:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Searching youtube videos only:

"Wishing you happiness and prosperity" 588 videos
"gongxi gongxi" 12,400
"gong xi gong xi" 67,100

At some point you can't argue with the data. Gong Xi Gong Xi is what this song is called in the English language web. -- M.boli (talk) 06:48, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]