Talk:Graeme Obree

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Scottish or English?[edit]

Can I ask how Graeme Obree is classed as a 'Scottish' cyclist if he was born in England? Douglasnicol 00:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can but having seen similar incorrect articles I doubt you'll get a reasoned answer in the positive. Like most things in Wikipedia once the nationalists get into their warped minds that someone is Scottish instead of British despite "Scottish" not being a recognised nationality by the UCI, the United Nations, the UK Government or the EU then an article will, if corrected to show the real state of affairs, be continually be reverted to support the nationalist way of thinking. Maybe Nuneaton, Warwickshire really is a suburb of Glasgow. :) M100 20:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Irrespective of whether "Scottish" is a "recognised nationality" (it is by most Scots) Obree is Scottish. This is not "instead" of being British, any more than it is "instead" of being European. Spiridens (talk) 23:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No offence but I take issue at the constant cries of 'petty nationalists'. Yes, I am Scots and proud to be one, but I've seen as much hypocrisy on the other side. For instance, the article on Andrea McLean was changed at one point taking out a bit about her accent, saying she wasn't Scottish and putting British in instead, yet similiar articles on people from England said only "X is an English news presenter/broadcaster/actor" whatever. I think both sides have plenty of blame. Douglasnicol 22:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
well, this BBC site article [1] begins "The career of Scotland's two-time...." The "Scottish" reference seems well-established and accepted for Obree.--Billymac00 (talk) 01:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But it doesn't discuss Obree's nationality. For me British is a more accurate description. SeveroTC 16:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that British and Scottish are equally accurate, and because it is clear from other sources at the top of the article that he is British, "Scottish" is more informative in this context.Spiridens (talk) 23:30, 10 February 2009 (UTC).[reply]

because both his parents are scottish, and he has lived in scotland from a very young age. He was simply only born in England —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jupebox (talk • contribs) 16:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds similiar to the Olivia Newton-John argument, born in the UK, but spent practically no time there.... Douglasnicol (talk) 00:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As someone who is both Scottish and British I can assure you that Obree is also both of these. Because of the historical, social and political situation in Scotland, at least as many Scots consider themselves to be Scottish as British, and most consider themselves to be both. This is not a contradiction, but reflects a particular historical situation as well as genuine ambiguity in the definition of what a "nation" actually is (Wikipedia currently defines it a "cultural and social community"). Clearly, Obree is Scottish, and the fact that he is also British is implicit in this. Thus "Scottish" is the more informative adjective. To assert this is not "Scottish Nationalistic" in the political sense. Spiridens (talk) 23:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, but the guy was born in England. Doesn't it seem a bit strange to call him Scottish then? Douglasnicol (talk) 00:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I take your point, but being born somewhere isn't the only (or perhaps even the main) way you gain nationality. Apparently he was born to Scottish parents, was brought up in Scotland, is clearly culturally Scottish, and considers himself Scottish. The fact that he happened to be born in England is the /only/ argument for calling him English. This information is there in the first sentence in any case, so anyone who wishes to consider him English on these grounds alone is fully informed and able to do so. Think of it this way - if there was such a thing as official Scottish citizenship and you were required to have it to live in Scotland (I'm not suggesting that's a good idea!!), doubtless Obree would have qualified and have gained it.Spiridens (talk) 08:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was born in Scotland but my Scottish friends would not consider me Scottish. I speak with an English accent and have spent many more years south of the border. I'm English. He can be whatever he wants to be.Cross Reference (talk) 04:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway, this can be trivially discounted by examination of other sporting personalities. Terry Butcher was born in Singapore, but it doesn't make him Singaporean. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if it is a choice between Scottish and British, it is worth noting that Chris Boardman is described as English in his article.Spiridens (talk) 09:29, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've met him. With an accent like that, he's Scottish... Mr Larrington (talk) 14:41, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Washing machine bearing[edit]

I know that he doesn't like being known as "The Washing Machine guy", but surely the fact that Obree used the bearing from an old machine in Old Faithful is worthy of a mention? http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/asportingnation/article/0037/index.shtml TrulyBlue 14:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Differing depressions[edit]

In the opening of the article it says that he has clinical depression which is a term most often used for major depressive disorder (unipolar). Later in the article it says he was diagnosed with severe manic-depression, i.e. bipolar disorder. These are really two different mental illnesses which should not be used interchangeably. Consider clarifying. 67.173.52.107 (talk) 14:17, 28 March 2009 (UTC)JJMO[reply]

I've removed depression, to make it clear he is bipolar. Jim Michael (talk) 21:02, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Graeme Obree is aiming to set a new world record - on another DIY bike[edit]

--Mais oui! (talk) 06:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Old Faithful[edit]

This bike seems to be at least 2 bikes: one built by Obree and one a replica of it built by Mike Burrows, or maybe one bike with different versions. The article at the moment only mentions one bike and that it had "only one blade in the front fork".

This article http://www.scotlandforvisitors.com/nmspic.php shows a bike with 2 blades in the front fork and says 'This is the "home made bike" that Graeme Obree won a variety of records and championships on'. Does the fact that "home made bike" is in quotes imply that this one was not actually home made. This picture is of a bike in a museum, but unfortunately the museum description in the photo is too small to read.

This article http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/cyclists/obree/graeme-obree-bikes/ shows a one-bladed bike the photo presently in the present article and also the the two-bladed bike version. In the text it says that Obree made a failed attempt at the one hour record on the replica, and then a successful attempt on the original - but it does not make it clear which one is which.

(Reference to blacklisted URL removed by original editor.)

The film also mentions the original and replica versions, but shows them as two definitely distinct bikes (not as one bike with some parts changed) - though I think that this may very well be for dramatic purposes.

This photo on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/semi-detached/219393125/ shows a two-bladed bike with the comment that it "looks pretty DIY at close range".

As an extra complication: this photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/rabsda/3669449525/ has a caption that says "This bike was built by Graeme Obree for the film "The Flying Scotsman". It is a replica of Old Faithful which he used to beat Moser's hour record in 1993. This is two-bladed.

Some info from http://graemeobree.co.uk/default.aspx which says "This site isn't endorsed by Graeme Obree directly". "Graeme and his few assistants flew to Hamar in Norway, and he just failed in his first attempt to break the record." (not mentioning what bike was used), and "Graeme had the track booked for 24 hours, and said he would go again in the morning. This time round, he used his own home-built bike (dubbed "Old Faithful") and smashed the record, earning himself a place in the history books."

What I think is the official Obree website http://www.obree.com/index.php does not seem to say anything on the subject (or I just could not find it).

In this interview Obree http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8571281.stm (audio) Obree mentions Old Faithful, the fact that it "hangs in the National Museum of Scotland", washing machine issue and that he is "glad to see the back of it" and it being "last century". The different versions and number of blades is not mentioned.

I don't feel I have got to the bottom of this question yet. I do not necessarily think that all of this info should go in the main article, but I think that the main article should ideally clarify and verify at least:

1. which exactly was the bike that Obree broke the one hour record on,

2. what this bike was actually made of, who designed it and who actually built it,

3. if 1 and 2 are not possible, to have some indication that it was not simply one bike and point out that the photos show different bikes.

One more thing: the article mentions 'a tread of "one banana"' as mentioned in the film. Was this just in the film, or in reality? FrankSier (talk) 16:53, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relating to my own contribution immediately above: I had unknowingly made a link to a web page that was blacklisted by Wikipedia and only found out about this when I tried to save. Because I had not come across blacklisting before I temporarily "deactivated" the link while I investigated. It looked like the page I had linked to was possibly a copy of an earlier version of the present article plus some spam(?) links. The only possible extra info on that page was: "The front fork had only one blade (however, this was a Mike Burrows design added later to the bike)...". I have gone back and removed the offending URL entirely, though it is still probably in the history somewhere. FrankSier (talk) 17:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In Obree's autobiography he explicitly says that he built and designed Old Faithful by himself, the bottom bracket on this bike included bearings from a washing machine. When he flew to Norway his first attempt was on a replica of this bike that was build by Mike Burrows. This first attempt failed, and the following morning he made a second, successful attempt on Old Faithful. I have no idea which of these two bikes had a mono-bladed fork! Thorin98 (talk) 16:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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