Talk:Green armies

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Figes in translation[edit]

@Grnrchst, in your translation from es.wp, are the imported Figes 1996 page numbers reflective of the book's English or Español edition? The es.wp article (es:Ejército Verde (Rusia)) appears to use the Español version. If true and all citations in the article referring to the translated edition, then we should switch the reference at the bottom so readers know the correct source to reference. If the short footnotes refer to multiple editions of the book, we should distinguish the edition citations to avoid confusion. czar 17:58, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just came back to post the same thing and it's already here. :) I'm going to switch to the 2010 version used in the eswp article. There might be issues with some of the other translated sources too. czar 04:52, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Green Flag[edit]

@Czar@Grnrchst English wikipedia uses the diagonal green-black flag for Civil War green armies. Is this appropriate given this flag is normally associated with modern green anarchism? This entry says green armies used green-black flags, but is there any source or image that confirms this? I am skeptical the diagonal green-black was ever used. UnknownVolin (talk) 20:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's unsourced in the article, so I'll move it to this talk page for discussion out of precaution and given the citogenesis in this space. czar 21:07, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dates back to 2012 in the Spanish article (source of this translation) with nary a citation czar 21:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aye, as per Czar, this flag was completely unsourced. If anything, the Green armies were more widely known to use red flags, as many of them considered themselves to be the true standard bearers of revolutionary socialism. Grnrchst (talk) 14:37, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Contradictory Article[edit]

This article seems to contradict itself openly when trying to discuss the ideology and organization of the 'Green movement'. The section about "Constituents, Leadership, and Goals" correctly argues that green armies were spontaneous and localized revolts by peasants against the wartime draft and as such often lacked a discernible ideology or political goal aside from avoiding the ravages of white or red armies. This seems to be in line with recent scholarship on the topic.

Earlier in the article though, there is an entire section dedicated to discussing how "the Greens" were driven by SR ideals of land division and how the ideology of the Greens was "very uniform". This is a direct contradiction to the aforementioned section, and presents the green armies as arising from Socialist-Revolutionary ideals and having a broad vision for society and political programme. There is a fundamental inconsistency in the article which acknowledges on the one hand the shapeless and ad-hoc nature of resistance by green armies, but also tries to discuss the greens as a coherent political movement with policies. I think much of the article needs to be rewritten in order to resolve the contradiction and more accurately convey the fact that the green armies in the Civil War were not a coherent mass movement but spontaneous peasant resistance to conscription and wartime brutality. Viralworld (talk) 01:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]