Talk:Grudziądz/Archives/2013/May

Erich Weise is NOT a reliable source

Re [1]. Erich Weise was a Nazi historian. He is not a reliable source. The book was not published in 1981, it's a reprint. If this text must/should be included then please find reliable sources.Volunteer Marek 16:17, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

That he had been a NSDAP member does not render his later books published in free Germany 'unreliable'. He was clearly no Nazi at that time. You are conveniently using the 'he was a Nazi' red herring to get rid of unpleasant facts from the article. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 16:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

He wasn't just a member of the Nazi party. He was responsible for looting Polish archives and committing war crimes. According to reliable sources he sneaked through the denazification process. Are you honestly arguing that a guy who was in charge of looting Polish archives and committing war crimes is a reliable source for articles on Polish towns and cities? Seriously?

And as I said in the edit summary - there's no "get rid of unpleasant facts" here. That's a red-herring and a falsehood. I left pretty much all the non-controversial info in the article, just removed Weise as a source. Will you please bother actually checking the edit and looking into a source before blindly reverting first? Volunteer Marek 17:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

As unpleasant as his deeds during the German occupation may have been, he was a serious scholar whose works are cited by numerous others [2]. If you claim otherwise, it is up to you to prove Nazism was the most important facet of his career Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 17:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Dude. He was a Nazi. He was in charge of looting Polish archives. He committed war crimes. He's not somebody you want to defend and he's not a reliable source.Volunteer Marek 17:27, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Sources edited/written by Nazi authors, abuse of primary sources

This edit [3] uses primary sources, which may be biased, for potentially controversial information. This violates the Wikipedia policy WP:PRIMARY.

The same edit uses a source, Handbuch der historischen Stätten, edited by the Nazi author Erich Weise and with contributions from other authors from Nazi Germany. Per WP:RS this is not a reliable source and should not be used in this or other articles.

Furthermore it looks like an effort is being made to obfuscate the nature of this source, by omitting the fact that Weise was the editor and instead only listing a few of the authors (like Kurt Forstreuter, another Nazi). On top of that the ISBN number of the book is being omitted. Note that previously the same editor included this information in his previous edits, but when concerns were raised about the nature of this source and Erich Weise, began omitting it. This suggests strongly that the editor in question is fully aware that this is a problematic source and is making bad faithed attempts to hide it.

Please do not restore this info without providing modern, reliable, secondary sources.Volunteer Marek 22:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)