Jump to content

Talk:HMS Indefatigable (1909)

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Featured articleHMS Indefatigable (1909) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Featured topic starHMS Indefatigable (1909) is part of the Battlecruisers of the world series, a featured topic. It is also part of the Battlecruisers of the Royal Navy series, a featured topic. These are identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve them, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 24, 2011.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 11, 2010Good article nomineeListed
July 9, 2010WikiProject A-class reviewApproved
August 17, 2010Good topic candidatePromoted
August 31, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
November 3, 2010Featured article candidatePromoted
December 17, 2010Good topic candidatePromoted
October 31, 2013Featured topic candidatePromoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 29, 2009.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the wreck of Indefatigable has belatedly been declared a protected place under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 to discourage further damage to the resting place of 1,015 officers and men?
Current status: Featured article

John Cunningham Service

[edit]

Under John Cunningham's article, he served on HMS Lion as navigator. There was no mention of him serving on HMS Indefatigable.

Bankrobber (talk) 04:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cunningham's article does in fact state that Cunningham was navigator on Indefatigable - 'During the next three years he graduated to the role of senior navigator of the gunboat HMS Hebe, the cruiser HMS Indefatigable in the West Indies, and the minelayer HMS Iphigenia in the Home Fleet.' It can be found by searching this website as well, and is in Cunningham's entry in the ODNB. Benea (talk) 04:55, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Looking closer though, Cunningham's article may be linking to the wrong ship, depending on when Cunningham was on Indefatigable. It may be that it's the earlier armoured cruiser, if he was aboard prior to 1909. Benea (talk) 05:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

P Turrent, Q Turrent, X Magazine...

[edit]

The article makes references to such locations on the ship as P Turrent, Q Turrent, X Magazine, and so on, but there is no illustration on this page or on the page describing the class in general to guide the casual reader as to where these locations are on the ship. Jgoulden (talk) 11:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

[edit]

Survivors

[edit]

Just a quick note -- I was interested in the names of the two survivors and came across this thread. It says that Able Seaman Elliott and Leading Signalman Falmer, and that there was subsequently discovered a third survivor named John Bowyer. Can someone verify this and update the article accordingly? Raul654 (talk) 17:17, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately no source I can find gives the name of the two confirmed survivors so I can't verify that Bowyer is the third and not one of the other two.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:20, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Google Books is your friend. They are named in John Campbell's Jutland: An Analysis of the Fighting page 61. Raul654 (talk) 19:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:13, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Since when does hearsay on a forum constitute a reliable source? And on the subject of survivors, I've just listened to the entire recording of Leading Signalman Falmer held at the Imperial War Museum (got the headphones on right now) - in the two versions of his story which he gives, he makes no mention of seeing Captain Sowerby in the water, and other than a person called Jimmy Green who was later killed, he states that he was quite alone until early next morning. --Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 15:30, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Given that he quotes the file number for Bowyer's service records, which are available for £3.50, I'm not at all sure that he's incorrect. Spend the money and double-check, I'm not willing to do so for a fairly trivial point. The bit about Captain Sowerby in the water is a bit more problematic, because that contradicts multiple published accounts. Of course, now we're getting into the area of what to do when sources contradict each other. Especially since Wiki isn't supposed to rely on primary accounts like the tapes that you're listening to.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:31, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can quote a file reference. This still doesn't answer the question as to whether one person's claim on an internet forum is reliable. A claim which also contradicts many published recounts. That aside, I don't have to spend the 3.50, as I'll be at The National Archives on Wednesday. --Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 17:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But the file number does make it verifiable, which is the point. If the poster misquoted the guy's actual service record then I'll delete all mention of him and if you'll provide the file numbers for those recordings that you just listened to, I'll add a note about Falmer not seeing Sowerby in the water.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The file number is an indication of Original Research, surely to God? At any rate, the Royal Navy's translation of the German Official history, p. 274, (found in ADM 186/826) gives 1,017 killed and 2 "Made prisoner" from Indefatigable, total crew of 1,019. I think that's fairly conclusive. I'll still dig out the seaman's service record when I have a chance, but if even the Germans say two survived ...--Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 12:49, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article on the Battle of Jutland lists 1,019 crew and 2 survivors. I can find no online references to 3 survivors except the online forum ref listed on this page. I have read dozens of accounts that the ship had 1,019 crew and only 2 survivors. While I don't doubt the honesty of the people doing research Wiki requires 3rd party, verifiable, non-original research so unless anyone has any verifiable objections I'm going to make the changes throughout this article to reflect the 1,019/2 numbers. Coinmanj (talk) 02:59, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on HMS Indefatigable (1909). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Farmer

[edit]

Campbell and quite a few other sources (Peter Hart, Nicholas Jellicoe, Richard Osborne to name three) render the surname of one of the survivors as "Falmer", while the article has "Farmer". While the latter is clearly correct (according to his service record and also the registration of his death in 1970), perhaps it needs actually supporting with a source in the article. Andrew Gordon notably uses both surnames. —Simon Harley (Talk). 09:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]