Talk:Hassan al-Banna

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Hugely Inaccurate[edit]

As a student of political science in an Ivy league university and spent many years studying it in the Middle East I believe this article is one of the most bias, unscholarly articles I have come across on Wikipedia. I will attempt to create an updated version and correct some of the inaccuracies, provide alternate points of view but the use of TWO sources on a topic that is OBVIOUSLY contentious is not substantial enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.10.247 (talk) 05:16, 21 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]


that hyphen[edit]

I moved Hassan al Banna to Hassan al-Banna, as this is the proper transliteration, cf Lunar letters. Pls leave it that way. --tickle me 04:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed[edit]

This sentence was in the original article: Each carried an amulet that would allegedly protect them against "lead and steel." Is there an authentic reference to it? It is very doubtful that a puritan movement would tolerate, let alone condone, the use of such superstition. -- KB 03:19, 2004 Aug 18 (UTC)

POV[edit]

This article still has "Hassan al Banna does not need me to defend him....". This needs editing and NPOV'ing.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 00:40, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

POV again[edit]

Portraying al-Banna as benevolent reformer, while not mentioning the term Islamism even once, is entirely POV, as he was, together with Maududi, its intellectual father. --tickle me 03:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio[edit]

This article was lifted straight from here. Graft 17:33, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Grossly Incorrect[edit]

This article contains gross inaccuracies. I have added the POV template. See the discussion under Muslim_Brotherhood#Research_in_Progress. According to Brynjar Lia's book which I've cited there, neither Banna nor his father studied at Al-Azhar. According to Lia, Banna was not an admirer of Hitler and strenuously denounced racism as well as the aggressive militarism characteristic of fascism. According to both Mitchell and Lia, the Brotherhood maintained a policy of avoiding any involvement in World War II. I've removed these sentences for now, but I will correct this article more thoroughly within the next few weeks. --Beroul 14:08, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Do not delete large portions of the article.
Please follow the Wikipedia:Accuracy dispute policy. If you come across content that seems or is inaccurate use the dubios tags. For entire sections which may be innacurate use disputed tag.--AI 00:02, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I am restoring the following content which was deleted.--AI 00:02, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Education[edit]

  • Banna, who had a sizable Islamic library at home, was a graduate of al-Azhar Theological Seminary, a top Muslim seminary. Shaikh noticed Hassan's intelligence and sent him to memorize the Qur'an early in childhood. Hassan memorized the entire Qur'an. He was known for being very articulate as he gave sermons in Mosques at a young age.
  • Four years earlier than his peers, Hassan attended Mosque of Al-Azhar at the age of 16 where he graduated as the first in his class. He refused a scholarship opportunity from The Ministry of Education in Europe.

ODESSA[edit]

This was removed by an anonymous editor with the claim that it is unproven non-sense.--AI 30 June 2005 02:29 (UTC)

Al-Banna supported the Nazis 100% [1] Is a scholarly work proving this and the evidence against him is legion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.179.34.209 (talk) 09:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A pdf publication about a movement supporting palestine, written by an israeli cannot be considered a reference for an obvious reason. Otherwise, we need unbiased published academic publications to support the argument.

212.179.34.209 is an israeli IP which makes me question your intentions — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.222.121.55 (talk) 09:16, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coffee Houses Comment[edit]

Can anyone verify the comment that Coffee houses were "morally suspect"? I find that difficult to believe. Eqypt had a fairly freewheeling society at the time- something Hassan Al-Banna was against- and one could do much worse than coffee houses.

This entire article makes absolutely no mention of the fact that the Muslim brotherhood is not only the quintessential fascist organization; it was the pre-curser to Nazism. It is the reason for the entire conflict in the Middle East and in fact the world. It seems to be portrayed as a social welfare organization, like some people like to portray Hamas and Hezbollah as social welfare organizations. In fact these terrorist groups that subjugate their own people were born of the Muslim brotherhood, and are now the last bastion of Nazism that we still have in this world. Pardon me for not posting correctly. I am new to Wikipedia and I don't really know how to post a comment. I could only see an option to edit, but I don't want to edid what other people say, I just want to post a new comment, and hope that the information on the page will we edited later. tbenyaacov, 24 May 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tbenyaacov (talk • contribs) 01:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to Brynjar Lia Coffee-shops were still a novel thing and it was considered a "shame" ('ayb) for young people to spend time in them. ("The Society of Muslim Brothers in Egypt" p 32. Ithaca Press 1998)
Preaching outside the mosques at all was a bold step, witch emphasizes his disappointment with the Islamic establishment. Although they DID preach in mosques as well, and the majority of the mebmers of the brotherhood where recriuted in the mosques.
130.225.120.102 13:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite Using Scholarly Sources[edit]

I have posted an entirely new text for the Muslim Brotherhood and Hassan al Banna articles, as well as several new articles:

This amounts to over 12,000 words of text, and is the result of months of research, discussed in Talk:Muslim_Brotherhood, using reputable scholarly texts found at the library of the School of Oriental and African Studies at the University of London. Every paragraph in the main articles is marked with page-number references to the work it is based on.

I am not an expert on this subject, and nothing in these articles is original; I have simply summarised the material in the sources listed. Some of the sources are more favourable to the Muslim Brotherhood; others are more critical. By attempting to represent accurately the accounts given in these sources, I hope to have produced a set of articles that members of the Brotherhood, as well as well-informed critics of the organisation, could see as fair and balanced. However, these articles may well contain errors; if you believe that anything in the text is inaccurate, please correct it, referencing your sources, and leave a note here about the change.

If you are new to this subject, as I was when I began this process, please be aware that a great deal of misinformation can be found on the Internet, and in the press, about the Muslim Brotherhood. In order to keep these articles reliable and neutral, I suggest that, as far as possible, like my humble contributions, all contributions should be based on reputable academic texts by specialists in the field; journalistic sources should only be used for current events, and only if they appear in major national or international news outlets, preferably when the same information is reported by several sources. It is my hope that this policy will enable Wikipedia to be a more reliable source of information about the Muslim Brotherhood than much of what can be found on the Internet.

A few words about my own motivations for doing this: I am not a Muslim, but I respect Islam and I am opposed to imperialism. Although I am certainly not very knowledgeable about Islam, it seems to me that Western misunderstandings about Islam and the Muslim world are contributing to tragic conflicts, and that people need knowledge and understanding of one another in order to live in harmony. I hope that Wikipedia can be a small contribution to that goal, and that people who know more about this subject than I do will improve on this work.

--Beroul 21:06, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the "Statements" section that was recently added:

“In [Muslim] Tradition, there is a clear indication of the obligation to fight the People of the Book [that is, Jews and Christians], and of the fact that God doubles the reward of those who fight them. Jihad is not against polytheists alone, but against all who do not embrace Islam.”
“Know then that death is inevitable, and that it can only happen once. If you suffer it in the way of God, it will be your profit in this world, and your reward in the next.”
Fourteen years before Israel was founded Al-Banna wrote: “It is a duty incumbent on every Muslim to struggle towards the aim of making every people Muslim and the whole world Islamic, so that the banner of Islam can flutter over the earth and the call of the Muezzin can resound in all the corners of the world: God is greatest [Allahu akbar]!”
Al Banna, Hassan. “On Jihad,” in Five Tracts of Hasan al-Banna, translated by Charles Wendell, Berkeley, 1978.

I don't think quotes taken out of context belong in an encyclopedia article. These seem to have been added with the intent of giving a representative sample of Banna's views, but the articles under Muslim Brotherhood indicate that Banna's views on jihad were far more complex than what the casual reader might infer from reading these isolated quotes. I'm leaving these quotes here in case anyone wants to do the work of situating them in the historical context in which they were written, and in relation to Banna's other writings. --Beroul 13:00, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Beroul's removal of direct quotes from Hassan al-Banna's works is not acceptable, and his justifications for this not persuasive. In fact, he contradicts himself. First, as to why these quotes are not acceptable. He indicates that only quotes with negative implications must not be reproduced; only they are "out of context." And how do we know that they are out of context? Because Beroul says so; no evidence need be given and in fact no additional comments to indicate what this "complexity" might be need to be added to the quotes while leaving them in, they must be totally reverted. Of course, the "wider context" is that al-Banna wants to pursue his jihadi goals by stages. First the MB must come to power legitimately in a state, using the political system it finds there. Then, once in power, the jihad against both internal and external enemies becomes obligatory (fard). War must then ensue against Islam's enemies. The ultimate goal is the Islamicization of the world, and al-Banna is quite frank about this. That is the "far more complex" views Beroul wants to use, without specifying, to revert any direct quotes to such goals in the Wikipedia article. As for the self-contradiction that lies behind this reverting, Beroul claims, just above, that his motivation for these manifestly one-sided articles on the MB is in part his antipathy to "imperialism" per se -- clearly this worthy moralist thinks only Western "imperialism" is imperialism, and anti-Western Muslims even if members of an explicitly imperialistic group must not be included in his distaste for "imperialism." Islamic imperialism is OK because it is not "imperialism." So his motivation is self-refuting and self-undermining, when brought up against the facts. That being so, the facts must apparently give way and made to disappear. Even direct quotes are not permissible: they are "out of context" even if they have the most direct relevance to MB behavior and goals. On Islamic imperialism, by the way, it does exist; e.g., see the 2006 book by Efraim Karsh under that very name, Islamic Imperialism122.107.224.148 (talk) 03:34, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

Shouldn't this article mention that he was assasignated? --Schwael 20:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hasan Al bana is One of the hero of islamic History.... Y you people don't say anything of Jews Brotherhood...! One thing more Jihad is the Most important part of islam.. it will continue till doom... 

Your eyes can only see Hamas and Hizbullah but you people become blind when israili kills innocents childs.. for killing one they kill whole family.. your fingers why didn't start typing against freedom flotila...

One thing to my lovely christians(Protestents)" You think you making us fool but you will find yourself, the sanke(Zionist not whole Jews)you are feeding will sting you soon"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.99.187.166 (talk) 12:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Modified and corrected the term martyr as "As-Shaheed" Wonderingsoul114 (talk) 09:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

CIA, Osama etc[edit]

I deleted this paragraph-

He was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and used the Muslim Brotherhood as a wing of Nazi intelligence during the war. Incidentally after the war the Muslim Brotherhood was co-opted by British intelligence which based them in Egypt. After they were expelled by Nasser they were transferred to saudi Arabia by the CIA. Here they came into contact with the Islamic sect known as Wahhabism from which they borrowed much. To occupy their time many of them were given careers as teachers in the Madrasas and their was a young pupil who paid close attention by the name of Osama bin-Laden.

since so far as I can ascertain there are "rumours" of CIA involvement etc but nothing verifiable, and the bit about Osama isn't really relevant to this biographical page, even if true, etc. This seems to be POV to me and not really appropriate.82.71.30.178 00:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What ever connections to Hitler, which I doubt, is not important. The man, Al-Banna is the most admired Muslim in the 20th Century because he fought Western Imperialism and Jewish Imperialism. He inspired hundreds of millions of Muslims in Africa, Asia,Middle East, and Europe. All Islamic movements in Africa whether Somalia, Sudan, Djibouti, Ethiopia, and Kenya were directly inspired by Mr. Al-Banna. If the allegation that he had connections to Hitler is true which I doubt,then there is a reason for it, which is Jewish Imperialism which arrived in the Middle East in 1930-1940's was supported by the U.S-Britain-France the Allies, therefore it is possible Al-Banna reasoned, "your enemies,enemy is your friend", and, therefore assisted the sympathized with the Germans. Remember, many in the Third World who hated the colonialist British-French and their ally America saw the Nazi Germans diffrently, and as allies at times. The Turks, Somalis, and many anti-colonial movements in Middle East were supported by the Nazis.

Why would his connections or admiration of Hitler, if true, be unimportant?

Zionism is not imperialism, in fact it is a counter to Arab/Islamic imperialism which colonized the Jewish homeland. And why would the fact that Al-Banna was Hitler's stooge not be important? Al-Banna like the vast majority of Muslims loved Hitler —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.179.34.209 (talk) 12:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The ties with Nazi Germany during the war are very well documented, contrary to statements made above, not only from declassified British and American archives and memoires of figures in those countries, but also from Nazi German archives, and I have added references to some of the most significant, serious and substantial academic studies, from leading academic presses and thus well peer-reviewed (and drawing from German and other government archival materials), in my contribution to the article. Directly connected to this is Hassan al-Banna's involvement in spreading antisemitic ideology throughout the Arab world, with fateful consequences right down to the present. Indeed, the poster above who shows very strong POV in referring to supposed "Jewish imperialism" and dismsses the Nazi link as unimportant (delecting previous references to it in the article) reflects the continuing relevance of these influences. The Second World War was an overwhelmingly important reality during the latter part of al-Banna's life, and his links to the Nazis were therefore very important then and remain important now (especially through their continuing echo in the Hamas movement, which is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood -- this should have been mentioned in the article as well). So reference to those connections and ideas belong in a neutral and objective Wikipedia article.122.107.224.148 (talk) 02:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Citation style[edit]

I recently changed all citations from Harvard referencing to footnote, because those seem to be the most commonly used now. If anyone objects feel free to revert my edits. Joshdboz 14:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan al-Banna's Hanbali background[edit]

Rather than elaborating on this at length, I have added a short reference indicating that his family were followers of the Hanbali madhhab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.54.218.179 (talk) 01:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His Sufi Order Or Tariqah[edit]

The order he was in was the Hasafiyyah Tariqah (Source: Fundamentalisms Observed By Martin E. Marty, R. Scott Appleby, Pg. 360) I hope someone can add this to the article. --Huss4in (talk) 17:58, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Year of birthday[edit]

1890 or 1906? αυρδεκ ζαφυρ 11:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Academic sources point out that he was in fact not born in Mahmoudiyah but in a village called Shamshera. He and his family only moved to Mahmoudiyah at a very early age. Has this challenge to the traditional narrative come to be accepted since? 36torrington (talk) 06:45, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Birthdate Confusion[edit]

Hello All, I noticed birthdate is listed as 1890 and 1906 separately. From what I understand the correct date is 1906. Here is a link I found that supports that date: http://www.islamtimes.org/vdcd.j0s2yt0jfme6y.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tammersalem (talk • contribs) 12:04, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

al-Banna's daughters[edit]

The following line: A turning point in al-Banna's life was the birth of his daughter Uclan, who had also been raised with a strict Islamic upbringing but was increasingly influenced by Western Culture as she grew older. This had strengthened the Islamic ideologies of al-Banna who had become even more suspicious of the West. is strange in two ways: 1-I could not come across a daughter by that name, 2-if it was a 'turning point in his life' more elaboration would be required. Googling produces the following names for his daughters:

Istishhad al-Banna Sanaa' al-Banna Wafaa' al-Banna Safaa' al-Banna Rajaa' al-Banna Hala al-Banna

Please remove the question mark that I have added when this is corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.152.42.27 (talk) 04:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Still inaccurate[edit]

The link to the Nazis is through the Grand Mufti. The MB had only 800 members in the late 30s, but what pushed it over the top, and gave it its broad base was the campaign to support the Arab Revolt, and al-Banna's link-up with the Mufti. The explicit fascist tone of al-Banna's ideas and his organization of the MB can be found summarized, from a variety of sources, including Jeffrey Herf's study of the impact of the Mufti's propaganda work for the Nazis, in Paul Berman's Revolt of the Intellectuals. In other words, you don't have to indulge in conspiracy theories about the MB being co-opted by the CIA or British Intelligence (which strike me as dubious anyway); the links are there, and exist in al-Banna's own words. The cheif inaccuracy in the article is not really in anything it says but in the massive amount of material it leaves out. For example, al-Banna was not a democrat, and not even interested in supporting any kind of democracy in a future, Islamically purified Egypt. In "Toward the Light," al-Banna says he wants "an end to party rivalry, and a channeling of the political forces of the nation into a common front and a single phalanx" (Berman, 41); and Berman cites another scholar, to the effect that the future Muslim state envisioned by al-Banna would be based "on the unity of power without any division between the civil and religious powers" (42). Note that the scholar in question, Brynjar Lia, is generally a fan of al-Banna, so it's not some enemy accusing the Supreme Guide of the MB of wanting to set up an un-democratic theocracy, but a friend, so to speak. Generally speaking, this not biography, it's hagiography. Theonemacduff (talk) 22:24, 11 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. And the article is missing information on his activity between 1939 and 1948. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 10:24, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Paul Berman is generally against Hassan al-Banna and Jeffrey Herf studied at tel aviv university. Do you have evidence that Brynjar Lia and Hassan al-Banna communicated? If you don't then why do you call him a friend of Hassan Al- Banna? You cannot just assume that he is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CodexWriter (talk • contribs) 09:52, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2021[edit]

In the Early Life section there is a grammatical mistake: Change "Despite of his young age . . . " to "In spite of his young age" OR "Despite his young age" Fallarbor (talk) 16:31, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done - changed to "Despite his young age", see Special:Diff/1006806958. Thanks! DanCherek (talk) 22:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2021[edit]

hassan al banna there is no sources for his creed or his school of law so it should be removed. 2601:403:201:4010:7CA0:A1C0:7A98:E65C (talk) 22:02, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Johnnie Bob (talk) 18:18, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:29, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Banna’s Creed and Jurisprudence[edit]

I have come across people calling him an Athari or Ashari in creed. I’ve seen him called Hanafi, Shafi’i and Hanbali in jurisprudence, as well. How are his creed and jurisprudence decided? Michbruh (talk) 03:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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