Talk:Hate Me (Blue October song)

On 21 December 2017, it was proposed that this article be moved from Hate Me (Blue October song) to Hate Me (song). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Real song meaning

The song "Hate Me" has a confusing concept. When you first hear the song you would probably think of a man who has lost a relationship to his ex-girlfriend. In the music video however, it reveals his past with his mother. The message in the beginning of the song appears to be the last time his mother tried to contact him. It's a powerful song with a powerful meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.14.107 (talk) 21:06, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

edit removing wrong song meaning

"Hate Me" (and in fact much of the album "Foiled") is about a failed relationship of the lead singer. In early 2006, when the album and single were first released, KDGE 102.1 The Edge in Dallas, Texas aired an interview with him in which he discussed the motivation for the album and the song. The song (and, again, much of the album) is to an ex-girlfriend, not the mother (although the mother does leave a message for the son at the beginning of the song). The interview clarified that he was living in California at the time (far from his hometown and his mother in Texas) and going through a very rough time with drugs, alcohol and the relationship. His mother was just calling to check up on him. I have not seen the video, so I don't know what might be there, but I am positive that the song is about a relationship. For further verification, please see Blue October's MySpace page

www.myspace.com/blueoctober

where the band writes

That Blue October hasnt followed the ordinary path to success is clear from the first single from Foiled, Hate Me, a song that recalls such aching rock anthems as Joy Divisions Love Will Tear Us Apart or Janes Addictions Jane Says for songwriter Justin Furstenfelds unflinching look at himself. Its a song portraying a mans selfishness in a relationship, then coming to terms with it, and admitting the mistakes.

Lastly, that section of the page was written in a very un-encyclopedic manner. But I removed it mostly to get rid of the wrong information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.182.97.121 (talk) 05:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

He wrote it as a present to an girlfriend, when he forgot her birthday and didn't get her anything. He wanted to break up with after having basically used her. He discusses this in his open book shows. Interviews he did before rehab aren't very reliable.

The story behind it is not nearly as deep as everyone wants it to be. He's just very good at writing songs that hit hard and people relate to. 2601:41:4300:78E0:6145:92DE:592C:74D4 (talk) 23:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever wrote the current version of the page is clueless about the song, the band and Justin. It is far from patronizing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.183.228.143 (talk) 03:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. It has many levels of meaning, but I don't see patronizing, nor has things I have read about it. Ripped that sentence from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PablitoRun (talk • contribs) 17:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lyric Analysis Section

I've removed the lyric analysis section and put it here because it really smacks of original research and inappropriate tone. It was also tagged for POV. If it can be re-written to conform to Wikipedia's policies, and reference verifiable sources, then of course please re-add it.--Aervanath's signature is boring 19:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Synopsis of the lyrics

Based on the music and song lyrics alone, radio listeners would probably not make the mother-son connection that the video portrays. The radio-edit cuts out some of the answering machine lead-in to the song contained on the CD track and in the video.

The video fills in many of the gaps. However, if the video were never viewed by a listener, the music and song lyrics alone, through the radio-edit, strongly suggest the original intent: a man who inflicted deep emotional damage on his ex-girlfriend through his own self-destructive patterns. Possibly his alcoholism or substance abuse resulted in a selfish/hurtful behavior like abuse, cheating or something of that nature.

The lyrics further imply that an overwhelming sense of guilt for the pain his destructive behavior caused, and his possible inability to currently control his tendencies, are causing him to remove himself from her life, so as to protect her from further emotional damage.

Other implications include a thank you when looking back at all of the care given to him by her (similar to that in the video from his mother) as well as the selfless (in his own way) message that it is ok to "hate me" for all of the pain he's caused.

There may be a connection to their previous single, "Calling You". In the beginning, of the un-edited version, right before the answering machine lead-in there is a voice-over reciting an excerpt from the song: "If you're sleeping are you dreaming, if you're dreaming are you dreaming of me? I can't believe you actually picked me."

The lyrics "Hate me today...Hate me in ways hard to swallow" implies that he wants his sympathy of the one he loved, as to feel sorry for him.

“

If you're sleeping are you dreaming

If you're dreaming are you dreaming of me?
I can't believe you actually picked me

”

Like "Hate Me", "Calling You" also implies a relationship between the singer and his significant other.

This reflects the song's main-stream radio acceptance and success as many modern rock and top 40 hits lyrically are about love's watered down or raw (like these lyrics) emotion.

From the Blue October Lyrics (http://www.geocities.com/blueoctoberlyrics/) web-site:

“

Basically, I was in L.A. for awhile, and going through some stuff...and my mom hadn't heard from me for three or four months, and she was just kinda getting worried about me and checking into see if I had re-upped all my medication. Which I hadn't. And she probably knew that, cause of mom's intuition, you know...they always know when something's wrong. And I actually realized at the beginning of that song that it wasn't just a song about relationships anymore, it was more of a song about a universal theme about not forgetting who's important to you, and things like that...so I wanted to add my mom into the beginning of that just cause you only get one chance at having a great relationship with everybody you're surrounded with.

”

(Justin - 04-04-06)\

Calling You

                    Did anyone notice that in the beginning of hate me, you hear part of calling you??
                             ~~Rckhound1~~

Rick Dee's

Anyone have a source for this. I believe this was the first song to reach number one on the Rick Dee's countdown to contain the word Hate in the title. --24.103.173.3 (talk) 16:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- I don't have a source but I remember listening to it when that was mentioned.

Charts

The charts are wrong,

17 Pop Songs » September 16 2006 2 Alternative Songs May 13 2006 13 Adult Pop Songs » September 9 2006 82 Hot 100

From Billboard.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.94.251.19 (talk) 18:18, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 December 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. See no general agreement among editors after 25 days and two relistings. As is usual with a no consensus outcome, there is no prejudice toward making further attempts to find the highest and best title for this article. Happy New Year to All! (closed by page mover) Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 16:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hate Me (Blue October song) → Hate Me (song) – Per ~~WP:NCMDAB~~ WP:SONGDAB; this article is the only existing article about a song named "Hate Me". The other two songs, Hate Me (Attila song) and Hate Me (Escape the Fate song), are redirects. Steel1943 (talk) 15:05, 21 December 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 15:53, 30 December 2017 (UTC) --Relisted. Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 15:24, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relist comment. Members of WikiProject Songs have been notified of this debate in an attempt to reach consensus. Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 15:32, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Per WP:SONGDAB, we don't include the artist name unless there are multiple articles on songs of the title.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:00, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose' - possibly too similar to Hate Me! (another song). So many similar titled songs/redirects means we'd probably move this page right back sooner than later. -- Netoholic @ 03:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:NSONG, Hate Me! may not be notable enough for an article covering the subject. The article states that the single "managed to sell platinum", but that statement is not supported with reference, nor am I able to find one. Nothing else in that article supports a claim for notability for the subject at Hate Me!. Steel1943 (talk) 09:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - This is the wrong forum for a debate on notability of that article. As long as it exists, though, we must consider it in relation to this requested move. -- Netoholic @ 19:43, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - There is only a "wrong forum" problem if you contest the article being WP:BOLDly redirected to Follow the Reaper. If so, I'll happily start a WP:AFD for that article. Steel1943 (talk) 22:17, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      (Resolved after adding ref to the article supporting platinum claim. Steel1943 (talk) 02:17, 23 December 2017 (UTC))[reply]
Oppose Hate Me (Children of Bodom song) was platinum so not sure why it isn't notable, but even without that this is the same thing as any generic title used by multiple entertainment products. There's rarely an absolute Primary down at this level. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:34, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @In ictu oculi: Are you by chance able to locate a reference for the subject of that article that verifies that the song went platinum? I'm not able to find one, and as it currently stands, that "platinum" claim could potentially be bogus. Steel1943 (talk) 22:18, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why would it be bogus, sales are sourced in the band's discography article and was No.1 in Finland. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:51, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you knew this information, you could have just done this and resolved all concerns. Steel1943 (talk) 02:17, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well I didn't propose the RM :) In ictu oculi (talk) 09:35, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:SONGDAB and WP:SMALLDETAILS. Hate Me! is different from Hate Me due to the omit of an explanation point in the latter. SMALLDETAILS state that articles can be disambiguate with small details, such as punctuation or capitalization, when they can be accurately dis-ambiguous. This is the case for these two songs. Use a hatnote to solve any confusion. CookieMonster755 ✉ 17:23, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. As long as there's no other article that needs the precise title, a hatnote is sufficient. I've just added Hate Me! to the hatnote. Station1 (talk) 19:31, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But the ! isn't used consistently with the other song, so WP:SMALLDETAILS doesn't apply. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:33, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As long as the title of the other article uses the !, it does apply: "When such navigation aids [hatnotes] are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics, e.g. ... Airplane vs. Airplane!" If the other article is not at its best title, that's a separate issue, but no one has suggested moving it to an ambiguous title yet. Station1 (talk) 00:21, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Netoholic and In ictu oculi. The currently existing qualifier that includes the name of the group, Blue October, unambiguously disambiguates this song from same-named composition by another group, Hate Me! (Children of Bodom song) which, unlike the two additional same-named songs mentioned in the nomination, has its own article. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 08:12, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support so long as no other song article is titled "Hate Me" ("Hate Me!" doesn't count)--Ilovetopaint (talk) 12:37, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Readers typing or autofilling "Hate Me (song)" could plausibly be looking for a song titled "Hate Me" or a song titled "Hate Me!". James (^talk/_contribs) 13:53, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Fails PRECISE. Fails consistency with other Hate Me songs. Reduces RECOGNIZABILITY. All round is bad for readers, no advantages to anyone. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:01, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Terminal punctuation “!” is almost never sufficient disambiguation. Terminal punctuation is stripped from urls by most programs, readers do not expect terminal punctuation to be used this way. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:05, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.