Talk:Henry Cow

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Spelling of David Atwood[edit]

Copied from this discussion:

Hi Bruce,

I came upon the Henry Cow information a couple of weeks ago. I used to know the band, and am still friends with Dave Attwooll the old drummer. I changed the spelling of his name from Dave Atwood to the correct spelling, and unfortunately you changed it back. No worries, however I will be happy to have Dave get in touch if necessary if that'd help ?

Many thanks Bruce

Best Tim

I'd love to update the article with the correct spelling of Dave's name, but it needs to be verifiable. I can't find any sources that say his name is spelt "Attwooll" – do you perhaps have any? The Henry Cow article uses this source, and there are several others that also spell his name "Atwood". —Bruce1ee 05:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If Dave himself tells us he's Attwooll, then the policy at WP:BLPEDIT applies and we would respect that. I'd've thought. Bondegezou (talk) 15:28, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point, but does WP:BLPEDIT trump WP:Verifiability? I don't feel too strongly either way – I'm just trying to adhere to policy. —Bruce1ee^talk 15:37, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it has to be judged on a case-by-case basis. In this case, the existing sources seem uncertain, so I presume we'd be very sympathetic to the individual in question. Bondegezou (talk) 15:41, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know Aymeric Leroy (author of http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr/bands/chrono/henrycow.html), so I'll drop him a note, see what he thinks. Bondegezou (talk) 15:44, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that will be a great help. —Bruce1ee^talk 17:48, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Aymeric's happy to go with Attwooll, so look out for a change at the URL given. I hope this isn't too circular a process! Bondegezou (talk) 20:58, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The same drummer Atwood who played on this this debut album? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This source confirms that it is Attwooll and not Atwood – thanks Swappers. —Bruce1ee^talk 13:45, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent source. Makes everything a lot clearer. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's a pity that he died earlier this month... —Bruce1ee^talk 14:03, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is. Do you think there is enough material/notability for an article? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:08, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How sad. At first sight, I didn't think there was enough there to establish Wiki notability, but I then saw it said, "in his sixties he won national acclaim as a poet". That might satisfy WP:AUTHOR if we could find some more details on it. I'll have a look for stuff. Bondegezou (talk) 21:38, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Website here, with this page mentioning several prizes won at the bottom. Sufficient evidence of notability there? Business website here may have useful stuff.

Another obituary. An earlier interview thing in the Independent. And a more recent interview about his poetry. Looks like enough reliable sources. Bondegezou (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I believe there is enough to establish notability, as a poet. Only one of these websites mentions Henry Cow (which only appeared after his death), and that's why, until now, searches linking him to the group yielded nothing. An article on him would be nice – it's always good to add another bluelink to the list of Henry Cow members. —Bruce1ee^talk 07:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See and please input to David Attwooll. Bondegezou (talk) 10:05, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well done Bondegezou. That was quick! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:42, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Bondegezou – that was quick. —Bruce1ee^talk 13:03, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done while listening to the new The Artaud Beats album Logos. Bondegezou (talk) 17:46, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not heard that yet - thanks for the tip! The name obviously a play on Art Bears. Have started Discography section over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:10, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Returning to David Attwooll, there a several pictures of him out there ([1],[2],[3],[4]). Of course they're all copyright, but as he is no longer living, and because of the apparent absence of free images, a fair use upload is permitted, as I did with Lindsay Cooper. Any thoughts on using one of those pictures in his article? —Bruce1ee^talk 06:30, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we should copy this discussion over to Talk:David Attwooll? The last one looks pretty good to me, but I wonder if his wife is contactable at all, as a courtesy? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:18, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Music sample(s)[edit]

Would some 30-second samples help? Something from this might be suitable. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think that would be a worthwhile addition to the article. I don't know what the quality of the music in YouTube videos is. It might be better to source the samples from Henry Cow CDs. —Bruce1ee^talk 18:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's generally very good. I have mostly vinyl. How many do you think? By way of comparison Van der Graaf Generator has just two. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you feel that YouTube quality would be adequate, then that's fine by me. (I have both vinyl and CD.) I don't think too many samples would be permitted on a page as they are licensed as fair-use. —Bruce1ee^talk 18:17, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what policy is for maximum number of samples. Perhaps someone at WP:MUSICIAN would know. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:22, 18 January 2021 (UTC) p.s. I'm guessing you may have seen the two clips of the band playing "Beautiful as the Moon", filmed at Veiveyin in Switzerland, in 1976? The copyright status is unclear.[reply]

Have a look at WP:SAMPLE, in particular the "Number of samples" point. Yes, I have seen the Vevey DVD but I'm not sure whether it's in the public domain or not. It's probably safer to assume it's not. But "Beautiful as the Moon" would be a good one to use. —Bruce1ee^talk 23:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Band Name[edit]

I thought the band was named after 19th Century industrialist Henry Cow?

https://boroughphotos.org/lambeth/p-b-cow-factory-factory-square-streatham-common-6/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.234.214.5 (talk) 14:05, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know there was an industrialist named Henry Cow. But no, the band wasn't named after him. See the last paragraph of the lead section of Henry Cow. —Bruce1ee ^talk 14:12, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps someone needs to create Henry Cow (industrialist)? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:35, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All we need is a couple of reliable third-party sources. —Bruce1ee ^talk 15:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lead image location[edit]

The lead image Henry Cow in performance.jpg was kindly uploaded by Bruce1ee in 2006 from this source, which seems to no longer have it. Do we know where the location that the photo was taken? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This linked source does have that image, not sure why it wasn't showing up earlier. (Here is an archived copy from 2007 in case it disappears again.) I don't know where it was taken, and the source doesn't reveal that information either. The Henry Cow Facebook page has many pictures of the band, and this one quite probably it amongst them. I can look and see if the location is given, although Facebook isn't a reliable source. —Bruce1ee ^talk 12:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, Bruce1ee. It still won't open for me on that site, so the archive version is very useful. The lampshade suggests to me it's from the Concerts era, but that's just a hunch. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinevans123: According to this Facebook post on 5 January 2020, it was taken at a concert at the Faculté de Droit in Rennes, France. But as I said above, Facebook posts are generally not regarded as reliable sources. (BTW I've added the archived source link to File:Henry Cow in performance.jpg.) —Bruce1ee ^talk 13:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah thanks. I see from this chronology that they played in Rennes in both 1974 and 1975 (from which years the recordings on Concerts were taken), and twice more in 1977, so maybe it was one of those dates. Also not a reliable source, of course (although no reason to doubt it). Maybe better ones will come to light. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]