Talk:Hohhot

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Name of the City[edit]

Hohhot means Green City, not Blue City. Also the mountains to the north are the Great Green Mountains. I was born there and also worked as tour guide so I know this very well.

Huhhot means Blue City, not Green City.

Mongolian: höh indeed means blue. Not green, not Turquoise, just blue. I don't know why some Chinese seem to think it means green.Yaan 09:10, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, in Chinese it means Qing Cheng. Qing is a color between blue and green. As a Chinese I would say it is closer to blue than green, but people also use Qing to describe the color of grass sometimes. BTW I was born there too. Same as the mountains in the north, in Chinese it called Great Qing Mountain, again Qing is a color between green and blue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.8.130 (talk) 18:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe that is the reason. But just because the Chinese like to translate höh to qing doesn't mean they are getting it right. höh tenger certainly is not green at all ! Yaan (talk) 17:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The aforementioned Da Qing Shan (Big 'qing-colored' Mountains) are called the Dalan Har Uul (Seventy Black Mountains) in Mongolian, according to locals. It seems that "höh" and "qing" are not always the same in placenames. All the more reason to keep Blue City.
Somebody anonymous just introduced a new translation of Hohhot as "Eternal City." I invite them to explain, but for the moment will revert it. -Ferronier (talk) 16:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
'köke/höh' has a number of significations in Mongolian, for example, 'köke öngge' (the colour blue), 'köke iniyedü' (a cold/callous laugh), 'köke oγtarγui (the blue sky), 'köke tngri' 'Eternal Heaven' (name of a Mongolian Deity). The highest deity in Mongolian Shamanism has a number of names, including, 'köke tngri', 'möngke tngri' and 'köke möngke tngri' - the meaning in all cases is 'Eternal Heaven', though these can be translated literally as 'Blue Heaven', 'Eternal Heaven' and 'Eternal Blue Heaven' respectively. The Mongols refer to themselves as the 'köke mongγol' - the literal meaning is, of course, 'The Blue Mongols', but the actual meaning is 'The Eternal Mongols'. In Injannashi's book 'Köke Sudur' - often translated into English as 'The Blue Chronicle' - the use of 'köke' in the title refers to the Mongolian people who call themselves the 'köke mongγol' or 'Eternal Mongols', thus the real meaning of 'köke sudur' is 'The History of the Mongols' and not 'Blue Book', 'Blue Chronicle' or 'Blue History'.
If we were to take the example of 'köke iniyedü' (cold/callous laugh) above and translate it literally into English we would get 'a blue laugh'. The word 'blue' in English has numerous significations, including but not limited to the name of a colour, the state of being depressed or melancholic and a way of designating sexual impropriety. To translate 'köke iniyedü' as 'a blue laugh' would lead the native English speaker to believe that the laugh in question was either lewd or despondent, and not 'cold' or 'callous' as was intended by that particular combination of Mongolian words. Chinese uses the words '黄片' (huang-pian) to signify what in English is termed 'a blue movie', but the literal meaning of '黄片' is 'a yellow movie' and if we were to translate it as such then the meaning would not be immediately clear to a native English speaker. Similarly, if we translate 'kökeqota' as 'Blue City' then the very rich significations of the name are lost. 'köke' does not just mean 'blue (colour)' just as the word 'blue' in English does not just mean 'blue (colour)' and so the real meaning should be reflected in the translation. 9 December 2008 Emyrpugh (talk)
I agree that the colour blue has a lot of connotations, but does this really mean 'eternal' can be used as translation here? The sky is blue, so I don't really see a strong argument for translating "köke" to "eternal" rather than "blue" here. Maybe if you could bring up some good sources, like reliable, specialized authors translating "Hohhot" to "Eternal city" or "Eternal town", or maybe some major dictionary ... But at the moment I would strongly prefer to just add some words on the meaning of the colour blue. Yaan (talk) 15:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is a confusion with Mönh. Mönh Tenger is usually translated as "Eternal sky" or "Eternal blue sky". So there is some connecton between eternity and the colour blue (or the sky, anyway), but via Mönh, not via Höh. Höh is really just the color blue. Just to be safe I'll ask a native speaker (from outer Mongolia, though). And I'll look into my dictionary. Yaan (talk) 10:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)P.S. of course this might also be a confusion with some other "eternal" city. I also kind of reject the translation of hot to "city" rather than "town", btw. Yaan (talk) 16:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Still convinced "blue" is the only acceptable translation here.There is actually a possible alternative meaning of höh(ön), but it also has little to do with eternity Yaan (talk) 10:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is no possibility of an alternate meaning in höh(ön) (köhü(n)) - the two words are etymologically unrelated; one is köhü(n) (breast/breasts) and the other is köke (blue/eternal) - the confusion seems to have arisen here from over-reliance on Cyrillic Mongolian in which both words are written exactly the same way as 'хөх'. The MKT (mongγol kelen-ü toli, öbür mongγol-un arad-un keblel-ün qoriy-a, 2000) p.1240 defines 'qota' as a large settlement with a centralized population. It benefits no-one to translate 'qota' to 'town' as opposed to 'city'.(talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 03:50, 9 December 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks a lot for adding this etymology. I think I was not really serious about those breasts, but it's still interesting. I am not a native speaker of english, so I won't comment on 'city' vs. 'town', just add that there have been some rather small 'qota's, like Ereen (16,000 inh.?) or some socialist-era administrative divisions in Outer Mongolia (Hatgal - 7000 inhabitants). Yaan (talk) 15:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, in literary Chinese, 青 (qing) means "blue" too, so there's no conflict there at all, but in modern vernacular Chinese 青 (qing) does more commonly refer to a blue-green colour. (In languages that borrowed this character from Chinese, such as Japanese and Korean, 青 still usually means "blue".) -- 119.11.11.4 (talk) 20:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Colours in place names usually indicate directions:
In 600 BC., Emperor Mu caused the Red Huns and the White Huns to fight each other. The Chinese recognized five compass points, each represented by a color. Black was the color of North. West was white, South red, and East was blue. Yellow was the color of the center of the compass. The Western Huns or Ephthalita probably received their name from this. They are often called the White Huns. [1]
The Blue chronicle is not the chronicle of the Mongols, but the chronicle of the East Mongols. As far as I can discern, no association of eternity, and not so much of literal colour either. But there are other words for the points of the compass, so these colour names were still used as symbols, albeit very transparent ones. Hun mun eniig medehee baisand bi ih gaihdag. Toli bichgess ch oldoggui!
“but people also use Qing to describe the color of grass sometimes”. While I don't know why, you do say хөх өвс.
G Purevdorj (talk) 15:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To describe the 'köke sudur' as being the history of the Eastern Mongols is anachronistic in the extreme. Both the 'köke sudur' and the 'Secret History of the Mongols' cover roughly the same seventy year period in which Genghis Khan united the tribes. 'mongγol' is the term applied to this confederation. The terms 'Eastern Mongols' or 'Western Mongols' are from a much later period. Stating that the 'köke sudur' is the history of the Eastern Mongols, is like saying that the ‘mongγol-un niγuča tobčiyan’ should be regarded as 'The Secret History of the Eastern Mongols'. Genghis Kan’s confederation contained groups who in the future would be termed 'Eastern Mongols' as well as people who would later be termed 'Western Mongols'.
The remarks on the 'köke sudur' above make no mention of a link between the book title and the concept of eternity, but more specifically the concept of being Mongolian. The 'köke' in the title is a reference to the term 'köke mongγol', therefore in this case 'köke' should be read to mean 'Mongol' as per the MKT definition of 'köke mongγol', 'a person of Mongolian decent, an ethnic Mongol' (mongγol kelen-ü toli, öbür mongγol-un arad-un keblel-ün qoriy-a, 2000, p.1518). Injaanasi himself also states in the preface to the 'köke sudur' that one of the sources he made use of in the writing of his book was, 'köke mongγol-un čidaγči-yin čadig', (injaanasi, köke sudur, liyouning ündüsüten-ü keblel-ün qoriy-a, 2007, p.26). The title, and indeed the whole book, is an allusion to a time of unity and greatness long since lost, the time of the 'People of Eternal Heaven'. Interestingly enough, it has also been suggested (and is widely accepted in Inner Mongolia) that the word 'mongγol' is derived from the union of the words 'möngke' and 'γal' - a reference to the fact that the ancient Mongols worshiped 'möngke tngri/köke möngke tngri' and made fire (γal) sacrifices; (Eldengtei & E. Ardajab, mongγol-un niγuča tobčiyan: seiregülül tailburi, öbür mongγol-un surγan kümüjil-ün keblel-ün qoriy-a, 1986, p.1, note 1). Furthermore, Genghis Khan, in the Secret History, commanded Shigi Qutuqu to write down his legal rulings (in consultation with him) in a 'köke debter' (SH§203) and that once written these rulings would be permanent and binding for future generations – forever. The choice of words here do not present Genghis Khan’s preference for the colour blue, but rather an understanding, on the part of the author, of the symbolic 'eternal' significations of the word 'köke'. 03:02, 12 December 2008 Emyrpugh (talk)
I must concede you are right as far as the Köke sudur and similar literary sources are concerned: the main content is the wrong time for "Eastern" Mongols. It was highly superficial to just think of the one directional meaning of “köke” and to consider it to be applicable here. And when Mongolians today in Mongolia speak of Höh Mongol, they clearly do not refer to the East Mongolians, but to the greatness of Mongolia, thus MKT “monggul ugsagatan” is justified. But as for city names (from Kharkhorin to Hohhot and Ulanude), would you hold that the directional scheme I alluded to does hold in general (and thus also possibly for Höhhot) or would you argue against this? G Purevdorj (talk) 21:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am not debating the symbolic use of colour to indicate direction; the Turks may well have adopted this colour classification but I am not immediately aware of Mongols having done the same - perhaps you could list some examples? There is also little evidence of this in the Mongolian place names given as examples above. Karakorum refers to the physical colour of rocks of the Karakorum mountain range (as explained by both Rashid al-Din and Juvaini) and the 'Ulan' in 'Ulanude' refers to Communism (as with the 'Ulan' in 'Ulan Bator'). I think the basic point here is that with sentences like 'man-u köke mongγol-un ulus' (injaanasi, köke sudur, liyouning ündüsüten-ü keblel-ün qoriy-a, 2007, p.2), we would have to translate this and other similar occurrences as 'Our Eternal Mongolian nation'; i.e. the nation of the people of 'köke möngke tngri' (failing that, 'köke' might be left untranslated and then explained in a footnote). In the naming of both the 'köke sudur' and the city of Hohhot (kökeqota), what was being alluded to were 'times of greatness' - the times of the 'People of 'Eternal Heaven', the 'Eternal Mongols' and the 'Eternal/Everlasting Mongolian state'. Thus, to translate these terms as 'Blue Mongol' or 'Blue City' respectively misses completely the symbolic content and produces an utterly meaningless effect on the non-Mongolian Wikipedia reader. Names like 'Ulan Bator' work as 'Red Hero' in English because the colour red is associated with Communism in both English and Mongolian. A straight translation of 'köke' as 'blue' does not work because English does not have the same associations. 18:02, 13 December 2008 Emyrpugh (talk)
I looked into three essays on place names (from Kele ba orcigulga 04/2, Monggul kele utga jokiyal 04/4, Obur monggul-un yeke surgaguli 05/4). The first two contained evidence that is much in line with your previous posting: typical white, black, blueish colour of rocks etc. While I shall look into essays on place names in the future, at the time being I'm obviously unable to sustain the position I previously claimed, and abandon it in default of evidence. I must admit that I had not read anything on this topic beforehand, but only repeated as truth a position I had taken over from a teacher who usually holds very trustworthy and conservative opinions. G Purevdorj (talk) 14:38, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In the Dictionary of Ya. Tsevel, Köke as an adjective is blue and only. (There are 3 meanings as nouns (Köku, not Köke) which are unlikely to be related to this city name). Though we have 'saaral chono', 'Köke chono' (chinu-a). It can't be 'blue wolf', can it? Gantuya eng (talk) 01:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You can have blue horses, however. :) Yaan (talk) 11:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And a green horse ... Gantuya eng (talk) 13:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Be that as it may, completely omitting that most Mongolians simply would translate Köke qota to Blue city also leaves some important information out. When looking at the Köke sudar, there seems to be a definite bias towards binding it into book covers of a certain colour - even what Heissig descibes as original manuscripts seem to have been bound into blue brocade - and I guess also all those White, Black, Red or Blue Books are usually translated to something about the colours mentioned, not to something about implied meanings. I am all for mentioning that the colour blue is connected to sky and eternity, but simply translating Köke qota to eternal city seems unsatisfactory, especially as long as it remains essentially unsourced. Yaan (talk) 19:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Emm, it means blue in Mongolian we have a different word for eternal. Huhhot means blue city. Huh Tenger doesnt refer to "eternal sky". Munke Tenger is eternal sky. If it meant "Eternal City" it would be "Munkehot"

Vowel Harmony[edit]

The transcription Kökeqota switches from front to back vocalic mid word. Since it is two words this is ok I guess, but then shouldnt the Mongolian word be written with a space and an initial Q rather than a medial Q? Tibetologist (talk) 00:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. When writing placenames and personal names, it is normal to run two components together, even at the expense of vowel harmony. You can find an instance of the word on the city web site [2] (sorry, it's only in the animated header.) –Ferronier (talk) 03:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is very simple. --Enerelt (talk) 15:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Translation of KHOKHE HOT[edit]

I believe the name of city refers both Deep Blue and Eternal. Kokhe also means generous or plain.--Enerelt (talk) 02:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The word itself only means blue but eternity, generousity etc are attributes attached to the colour.

Colour blue is also associated with purity as the blue sky (without clouds) was thought to be pure. Gantuya eng (talk) 16:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1947, Zhangjiakou, Baotou etc.[edit]

My impression is that the first capital of the Inner Mongolia autonomous region was Wangyemiao/Ulanhot. Zhangjiakou was never(?) part of the IMAR, and this makes me wonder how Hohhot is supposed to have replaced it. It had been the capital of Mengjiang, but whether IMAR is supposed to be a successor of this regime is probably questionable. "Common knowledge" doesn't really seem to help here. And I don't think it's asking too much to provide a reliable source to when Hohhot became capital of the IMAR, when this was decided, what were the other candidates etc. Yaan (talk) 12:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you have access to jstor, then this article (China's Changing Political Geography, by Norton S. Ginsburg, in Geographical Review, Vol. 42, No. 1 (Jan., 1952), p. 110) states that Inner Mongolia is indeed ruled from Zhangjiakou, even though Zhangjiakou is in Chahar province. But I am nt sure if this one source is good enough. Yaan (talk) 14:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What I've read is that Zhangjiakou was briefly the administrative seat some time between 1947 to 1952. But since 1952 Hohhot has been undoubtedly the capital. Many in the city credit this to then IMAR-Chairman Ulanhu. Colipon+(T) 03:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's what I understood, too, except not so sure about 1947 or some sligtly later date. But do you happen to have a(nother) reliable source? Yaan (talk) 08:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Culture[edit]

Question about the Culture section: how significant is "Muslim architecture" in Hohhot? Which buildings or neighborhoods are being referred to? -Ferronier (talk) 08:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The city's old town's main street, I believe it is called Hulun Buir Road, is entirely muslim themed. The city has a muslim district, Huimin District. I used to live there. Colipon+(T) 10:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean Hulun Buir or Tongdao? Tongdao is the one pictured at the top of the article, where the Great Mosque is. Hulun Buir is about two blocks to the east of there, running just west of the Xincheng Hotel and Nei Da. -Ferronier (talk) 03:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm going there this weekend I think. I can check for you and maybe even take a few more pictures. But is Tongdao the one that leads to Jiucheng Beimen? Huimin District has a bunch of halal (qingzhen) muslim restaurants as far as I can remember. The rest of the city is basically like any other Chinese city with Mongolian writing on all signs.

That being said, the Muslim architecture was a municipal project designed to make the city look nicer. I don't know if it was actually meant to reflect the city's demographics. I think only about 3% of the city is Muslim. Colipon+(T) 02:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your responses. Yes, Tongdao is the one that leads to Jiucheng Beimen. My point is that the Muslim "architecture" along there is just facades, put up around 2006 for the 60th anniversary celebration. A municipal project, as you said. And "Muslim-themed" is definitely the word for it. (Right before the celebration, in summer 2007, they added astonishing Mongolian-themed facades along the north leg of Tongdao street.) Besides the facades I'm sure you know the centuries-old Great Mosque itself, which is not in that Islamicate style at all, but built much like a Chinese temple, though with different colors and different symbols painted on the walls. So...just checking that you weren't referring to any other building besides the two kinds above.

The Hui people themselves are certainly a presence in Hohhot, regardless of architecture.

If you or anyone is interested in a (not terribly recent) published source about Hohhot culture, the following book has been recommended to me, though I haven't gotten access to it yet myself:

William Jankowiak, 1993, Sex, Death, and Hierarchy in a Chinese City: An Anthropological Account. New York: Columbia University Press

-Ferronier (talk) 06:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to look that up. Yeah we should write something about the 60th anniversary celebrations. The city was totally revamped. Colipon+(T) 10:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Other buildings built during this period include the Ulan Theatre, much of the Ruyihe area, as well as the large Stadium in the north near the Xincheng Gov building. When you're talking about the Great Mosque do you mean Da Zhao? Colipon+(T) 16:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Da Zhao is a Buddhist temple, no? By mosque I meant 清真寺 Qingzhen Si. –Ferronier (talk) 08:19, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have done a slight rewrite regarding the concerns in this section. Colipon+(T) 18:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Transportation[edit]

Flights from Hohhot to Ulaanbaatar have been stopped since the provider, Aero Mongolia, had its license suspended last fall. Here is a news video (Mongolian with English subtitles) covering the suspension. –Ferronier (talk) 08:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Aero Mongolia Suspension (MediaScrape)[reply]

They apparently have their license back, and their website gives a plan of two flights per week, Monday and Thursday. And at least their main page seems to have been updated last week (they have a new ticket office after the original one was burnt down on Tuesday). Does Hohhot's airport have a website that could corrobate or disprove that flight plan? Yaan (talk) 14:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hohhot's airport doesn't have a website. I've checked repeatedly with the Mongolian consulate and other Outer Mongolians in Hohhot, and they continue to say that, despite promises by the airline, service has not yet resumed. -Ferronier (talk) 11:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This just in: broadcast news in Ulaanbaatar has it that UB-Hohhot flights will be resuming this week. If it's gotten that public it might actually be true, so this will probably soon be a moot point. Will post confirmation when found. -Ferronier (talk) 11:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Call for Citations[edit]

The lack of citations in this article has been bothering me for some time, especially when it comes to straightforward things like statistics and historical names and dates that could be easily looked up. In fact I bet people did look them up before adding them. Please share your sources with the rest of us!

The fact tags I've just put in are in no way meant to challenge the veracity of the information. They are more of a to-do list for myself and anyone else interested in tracking down sources. –Ferronier (talk) 07:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note on population figures: the book I cite has the most complete breakdown of the ethnic groups in Hohhot that I've found so far, but it would be better to cite an official statistical report if anyone can get one. Better still if it's in English.... –Ferronier (talk) 07:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Huhhot[edit]

The official page says Huhhot: http://www.huhhot.gov.cn/home/index.asp--89.14.109.76 (talk) 13:11, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The official sites (note plural) use various spellings depending on the language targeted. The Mongolian version is at http://mgl.huhhot.gov.cn/ where as the Chinese version is on http://www.huhhot.gov.cn and the English language version at http://www.hohhot.gov.cn/en/index.asp. However, if you try to access the pages using the wrong spelling (e.g. http://www.huhhot.gov.cn/en/index.asp or http://www.hohhot.gov.cn) they will still work and display the same content. The webmaster has incorrectly set up the site such that they do not have a canonical domain name.
Hunhot is just a variant transliteration. Honhot remains the correct English name. The English version of the official website uses the Honhot spelling throughout its text. Rincewind42 (talk) 13:44, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is Mongolian "eternal blue" synonymous with a metallic tint perhaps perceived through the impression of the firmament (aura of Neptune) rather than green (turquoise) or black (navy)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.148 (talk) 02:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Attitudes toward intermarriage among Mongolians in Hohhot[edit]

http://books.google.com/books?id=A9CY_WiDZrgC&pg=PA335#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wr6SLwBiUZcC&pg=PA58#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jl_Zw9QzvxEC&pg=PA58#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 03:59, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Blue"[edit]

Is the literal color of the sky not a metallic hue? Be that the case, would it not be a color of the west. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.134 (talk) 03:40, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are different stories about the blue, some say it's the sky because Hohhot often has blue skies but others say that it is from the colour of the bricks. The old town is certainly built from blue-grey bricks and it is said that this is the original colour of all of Hohhot's buildings, for what that's worth. Likewise, the sky is certainly blue a lot but then most skies were blue before factories were built everywhere so that's also likely to be a modern construction. The actual history of Hohhot is as a market place so that's not very useful. 103.42.214.93 (talk) 01:21, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Hohhot. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:57, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Abbreviation[edit]

The article begibs "Hohhot (.....), abbreviated Hushi....". However am I right that Hushi is not an abbreviation of Hohhot? Rather it is an abbreviation of the Chinese name 呼和浩特; pinyin: Hūhéhàotè)? If so, it would be better to put the abbreviation after the Chinese name, and inside the brackets. The current drafting suggests the abbreviation is of Hohhot. Schnackal (talk) 19:36, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hohhot&oldid=1212046612"