Talk:Honey/Archive 6

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Archive 6

Math

[64Cal currently cited in intro]. 1272kJ /100g => 46kCal for 15ml (assuming 15g) But a 20ml tablespoon is 61kCal.MBG02 (talk) 21:02, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Smithsonian article

This Smithsonian article has been tossed around the internet a lot, claiming that honey found thousands of years ago is still just as sweet and edible as if it were new. This has been an urban myth for quite some time, and you'd think the Smithsonian would know better than to perpetuate it, but it just goes to show that even seemingly reliable sources can get it wrong. There are many sources out there which contradict this claim, including the very science of chemistry.

First, the source of the myth is well documented. It began in the 1920s after the discovery of King Tut's tomb. The scientists reported finding a jar which once contained honey (determined by the presence of pollen and spores in the dust found inside). The seal was broken when they discovered it, and no liquid was found, but markings on the jar made it clear it once contained honey. A reporter from the New York Times misquoted them, saying they found liquid honey, still edible, and the myth has persisted ever since.

When an archeologist finds a sealed container of liquid, they do not open it for any reason. They most certainly do not break out their Ritz crackers and start eating it anymore that they would pop popcorn found in Mayan tombs to sit and eat in front of the late-night movie. Many of the flasks found in Egypt that were originally thought to be honey, upon radiometric analysis, were found to really be other liquids like castor oil.

Finally, the ancients lacked the ability to pasteurize it, and upon crystallization it most certainly would ferment. Beyond that, the Maillard reaction occurs and keeps occurring until there is no more sugar left to convert into melanoidins, so even if it were still edible after thousands of years, it most certainly would no longer look and taste like honey. When I get just a little more time I'll dig up some of these sources. Zaereth (talk) 22:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I took the time to read through both of the listed citations that referenced the tombs and found that they were based entirely on rumors. In the first one, this is the entire reference to honey being used in preservation: "It was the custom among the Assyrian people to preserve corpses in honey, and this did very well also for delicate objects." In the second one, The Mummy: A Handbook of Egyptian Funerary Archaeology (1894), it claims: "The Egyptians also preserved their dead in honey. 'Abd al-Latif relates that once when he and several others were occupied in exploring the graves and seeking for treasure near the Pyramids, 'they came across a sealed jar, and having opened it and found that it contained honey, they began to eat it. Some one in the party remarked that a hair in the honey turned round one of the fingers of the man who was dipping his bread in it, and as they drew it out the body of a small child appeared with all its limbs complete and in a good state of preservation; it was well dressed, and had upon it numerous ornaments. The body of Alexander the Great was also preserved in 'white honey which had not been melted.'" As shown, both of these citations are unsubstantiated rumors. The first one possesses no citations of its own, and the latter is a rumor related by a local with no particular proof. These citations are extremely low quality and should probably be removed. Jachra (talk) 02:49, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

We need a section on the environmental impact of honey production

Hey all, I have to say, the article needs a section on the environmental impact of the honey industry, especially as it affects local bee populations. I guess I'll check back in a month and make a proper account and try to get past the protection if it comes to it because I can't understand why this information isn't featured. 109.76.223.31 (talk) 15:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Would you like to share you proposed addition here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:46, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Or if you want to post the reliable source(s) that you've found that examine that impact, other editors can assist. Schazjmd (talk) 15:50, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for getting g back. Here’s 2 sources that might be used: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190626160339.htm

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-27591-y — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.53.226 (talk) 21:23, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Those sources discuss issues that would appear to make more sense in the Beekeeping article. Schazjmd (talk) 21:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2021

Add the video File:Kodune mee võtmine Kõrvemaal 2014. aastal. Harvesting honey in Estonia 2014.webm Sillerkiil (talk) 13:25, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done It's unclear where that file is located. Do you have an actual link? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Sillerkiil is (most likely) talking about c:File:Kodune mee võtmine Kõrvemaal 2014. aastal. Harvesting honey in Estonia 2014.webm, Martinevans123. I'm against its inclusion: it's too long and includes too much unnecessary footage for what it's supposed to actually show. Even though I'd generally agree on having a video instead of several images, I think the images we have in this article are quite good at depicting what we need to show. BernardoSulzbach (talk) 21:57, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Honey Bear

"A commercially sold bear-shaped container of honey"

Since it redirects to this page, so maybe it deserves a mention somewhere on the page.

Drsruli (talk) 09:40, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

I disagree. It's probably not worth mentioning that "honey bear" is how people call bear-shaped containers of honey in this article (if anywhere). BernardoSulzbach (talk) 21:47, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Nutrition

The nutrition section is primarily concerned with the chemical composition of honey and not so much its consumption. Is it worth mentioning the WHO and others recommend limiting free sugar consumption for health? Tdr26 (talk) 22:24, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Too much of anything is always a bad idea. What's the old saying? "Everything in moderation." To me, that seems like pointing out the obvious, which most people find to be condescending. The thing is that we are not a "how to" manual, and we can't be giving medical advice of any kind. That is for other types of sources. What we can do is give basic nutrition content information, which includes how much sugar, protein, vitamins and minerals, etc., but we need good secondary sources, preferably not primary sources like the WHO. Zaereth (talk) 23:20, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Unless there's a source linking the WHO statement/statements from others to honey specifically, it would run afoul of WP:SYNTH to do so ourselves. But if you do find such a source, then it can of course be included - keep WP:MEDRS in mind for anything relating to medical topics, of course. --Equivamp - talk 00:32, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

References

Poor photograph

The photograph captioned

         A honey bee collecting nectar from monkshood (Aconitum delphinifolium, or "wolf's bane")

isn't really worth including because the important part of it is badly out of focus.

I know the intention is to illustrate a bee at a toxic plant, and there might not be many photographs to choose from. Still, it would be great if a better photograph could be found. If not, it is really just wasted space. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 22:49, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Khatijajaffer. Peer reviewers: Mdl516, LilyVogt.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Adulteration

Arguably, this aspect is too brief: Honey punching is a legal major business. Labels such as "from European sources" are hopelessly vague. Articles appear which stress the dumping of Chinese early harvested honey on the market. Most of the honey in the supermarket is of dubious, that is mixed, origin. When honey crosses a border it often is heated which denatures its nutritional chemistry. Azd0815 (talk) 23:02, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I reverted that, simply because it's not what the sources say. If you have sources to support your conclusions here, you are more than welcome to provide them, and then the article can be changed accordingly. Zaereth (talk) 23:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zephyr Ji.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:50, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Constipation

Disputed paragraph removed: There are studies that suggest that consumption of honey may be useful in alleviating the symptoms of constipation.

Sorry, but I don't think a single study, conducted on mice, that "suggests that honey can improve the symptoms of constipation" is WP:DUE for inclusion in the most general article about honey. I would argue that it falls into WP:PRIMARY category (a scientific paper documenting a new experiment conducted by the author is a primary source for the outcome of that experiment) and arguably violates WP:MEDRS – Primary sources should NOT normally be used as a basis for biomedical content and particularly the pyramid at WP:MEDASSESS: those results apparently come from the lowest level, "Animal and Laboratory Studies", and cannot be used to assess health effects of honey in Wikipedia voice. No such user (talk) 12:13, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 8 March 2022

The following line requires revision: "In addition, cooking or adding honey to boiling or hot liquids can release harmful substances to the body. Adding honey to hot drinks destroys many of its enzymes and may cause gastrointestinal problems in the long run.[139]"

- Both claims are vague (what "harmful substances" does it release?) - The only reference is a link to a craft store website and is not a reliable source for this information - The source offers no clear origin to its claims, so the statement should be considered suspect unless a more reliable source is found EAMbird (talk) 06:58, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done from a cursory google search I did not find any MEDRS and it looks like this is a ayurvedic belief Cannolis (talk) 07:46, 8 March 2022 (UTC)