Talk:Hoodoo Gurus

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Good articleHoodoo Gurus has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 18, 2008Good article nomineeListed

Origins[edit]

Brisbane? Dave Faulkner is from Perth, as are Kim Salmon and the Scientists. But Le Hoodoo Gurus were formed in Sydney as Faulkner, Baker and Radalj were living there at the time.

I've edited the intro based on info from this source - http://www.howlspace.com.au/en2/hoodoogurus/hoodoogurus.htm

and The Scientists confirms the Perth connection. User:RoyalDave

Fair use rationale for Image:Stems-tour.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot 06:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Miss Freelove '69[edit]

When was this song released? Was it on an album, or just a single? Seems like it was a hit, since I remember it from Mtv. Why can I find no mention of it? -Freekee (talk) 05:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The song was released as a single by Hoodoo Gurus off the band's 1991 album, Kinky. The single reached No. 3 on the Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart in that year. An opportunity exists to create a separate article on the single.Dan arndt (talk) 03:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It entered the Australian singles charts (ARIA) on 3 March 1991 stayed for 14 weeks to peak at #19 (their highest ARIA chart position for any single - "What's My Scene?" (19851987) may have charted higher but was released before ARIA regulated Oz charts). See Australian Charts. According to Discogs it was preceded by "Castles in the Air" and succeeded by "The Right Time" (1993) but Australian Charts lists "1000 Miles" as charting on 9 June 1991 (reaching #37). It was released by BMG in Oz and by RCA in US. Faulkner is quotable on this single at Dave Faulkner "Pop and Punishment" BTW, APRA lists the single's registered title as "Miss Freelove 69" (no apostrophe). Likewise "What's My Scene" (no query). I'm intending to trawl Gurus albums / EPs pages adding refs & info, then I intend to get their significant singles wikied and so expect to eventually get around to creating a Miss Freelove 69 if no else has done so by then. You (or anyone else) are welcome to start the page before.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Release Dates & Song/Album Ttitles[edit]

Not sure about Singles order: RateYourMusic has different order e.g. "Good Times" before "In the Middle of the Land" (other differences too), I don't use Discogs order: I think they sort by year and then alphabetical (not strictly chronological). "What's My Scene" should be wikilinked. "Miss Freelove 69" (no apostrophe) according to APRA (I know the single cover does have the '). Likewise "Like Wow Wipeout" (no dash, no comma, no exclamation) as registered with APRA. Obviously aliases are listed for these titles. I've just read wiki's page on EPs and Hoodoo Voodoo may be long enough to qualify as an album! But best not go there?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The order of issues of the singles I took directly from the Hoodoo Gurus webpage, which list the date of release and the title of the single. I am begining to have doubts as to whether the APRA details are correct and whether for their purposes don't include dashes, commas, exclamation marks etc purely for ease of referencing as the title listing on the actual releases does show dashes, commas and exclamation marks. As for Hoodoo Voodoo appreciate the edits - feel that it is in good enough shape to be an article proper now, abeit it could only be classified as a 'start' class. Dan arndt (talk) 02:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Does the HG website give Oz only release dates? Were there any singles released OS not Oz? Re: APRA: Did a couple of quick APRA searches (i) "Don't they know it's christmas?" (apostrophes and query are shown); (ii) "Son of a gun" gave most as searched but HG song as Son-Of-A-Gun (dashes shown); (iii) "Tequila!" most don't have ! but at least one did. So I'm not sure if they're consistent with their usage rules or not.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The HG website/discography only appears to give the Oz release dates. May have to check the actual record company release details (apart from that it is just pure detective work). As for APRA I have changed my views and am going to go with the song titles that are listed on the actual releases (more detective work - have to check the album and single sleeves). I agree with APRA not being consistent and therefore not a good reference point to use (apart from identifying the song writer).Dan arndt (talk) 06:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Changed order of Singles on HG Template: "Axegrinder" before "Another World" using Faulkner's list in his Pop and punishment article.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Stems-tour.jpg[edit]

Image:Stems-tour.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 16:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Review[edit]

This article is quite good. Some improvements include expanding the lead; see WP:LEAD for suggestions on how. All claims need to be cited. The Formation and the Gurus regroup section are a little choppy and the single sentences need to be combined into paragraphs. Good work. -- Mattinbgn\talk 08:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External links deleted[edit]

I deleted two of these. The lyrics link is redundant: Hoodoo Gurus official website has more lyrics and is sanctioned by the band. Link to Australian Encyclopedia of Rock & Pop article appears to be broken, obsolete or not easily accessed: I tried a number of times over the last few days to get in but no show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaidar cuebiyar (talk • contribs) 03:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-GA comments[edit]

Looking good, I think you can go for it soon. Quick thing I spotted was a lack of prose (ie mostly quotes) in the Persian Rugs section. Fix this and go for it! :) dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 10:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted one of the quotes and incorporated the guts of it into a part sentence on Kendall James joining Persian Rugs, hope this helps. I left the other quote which gives Faulkner's rationale for forming Persian Rugs and then for reforming Hoodoo Gurus.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"as special guests with the Bangles". Needs a ref. Some links in the Lead are repeated in the text.--andreasegde (talk) 09:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Bangles tour ref supplied. Further background: Hoodoo Gurus and The Bangles were to be co-headliners on the 1986 tour but "Manic Monday" was charting so well (eventually #2 in both US and UK) that tour organisers relegated Hoodoo Gurus to "special friends" / support band status. The Bangles did backing vocals on two songs on Blow Your Cool! (1987) and member Vicki Peterson, recorded backing vocals on some subsequent albums (this information is reffed on relevant albums' own articles) including recent release Mach Schau (2004).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

I have seen a few like this: "[16][1]". They should be turned around.--andreasegde (talk) 14:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA review[edit]

Part 1[edit]

  • First of the lead goes into an unnecessary amount of detail, it's supposed to be kept simple
The first sentence should just say who, when, where - their rise to fame should be mentioned later
Dave Faulkner (originally from Perth) - what significance does coming from Perth add to the lead?
Sometimes referred to as the Gurus, Shouldnt this be added to the first sentence? Killswitch Engage as one of the many examples
The second paragraph of the lead is an unnecessary list of chart positions, i suggest removing the entire paragraph to inly include their top chart positions
strong original compositions - is WP:POV and should be cited to the person who said it
by the impressive guitar work of Shepherd. - per above
The last sentence of the third paragraph is basically a better summary of the second, so i suggest removing the second paragraph of the lead
  • Dave Faulkner and James Baker of The Victims;[13] while Baker had been with Roddy Radalj - what does everyone play?
  • WHy is there a random quote stuck in the section? Surely it can be merged into text
  • punk rock linked twice in two sentences
  • Le Hoodoo Gurus were notable for having three guitars and no bass player, creating a distinctive, layered sound - a wiki (last.fm is not a reliable source)
  • Simon Townsend's Wonder World, Do TV shows go in italics?
  • they then backed a man and his singing - poorly written

I'll stop here for the moment. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:02, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lead has been re-written in accordance with above. More refs inserted. Formation re: who plays what added; quote incorporated into prose with ref; last.fm ref deleted.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:41, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Part 2[edit]

  • Hoodoo Gurus were their best - according to whom?
  • their string of widely acclaimed pop-rock - is written more like a magazine article, widely acclaimed may also be over doing it
Deleted best and widely; fixed sentence.
Restructured ARIA Hall of Fame reference to the Hoodoo Gurus bio (pdf format) prepared by Mark Pope on behalf of ARIA and not just the announcement of their induction (which cited a small section of the full bio).
  • .[4]. remove extra fullstop
Done
  • amusing their witty and clever tunes - POV of the author
Replaced with quote by Mark Pope of ARIA on the induction announcement & bio.
  • Rendall left in 1982, just prior to the release of "Leilani", -> Rendall left in 1982 before the release of "Leilani",
Restructured this sentence. Moved the IMDb ref to cover his music video & film directing.
  • and went on to become a noted music video and film director - the reference says "Just before the single came out Rendall left to concentrate on a film career." Doesn't say anything about music videos or that he became a "noted" director, which also would be an opinion
Changed sentence and ref (as noted above). Changed "noted" to "award-winning": Awards are listed in his IMDb entry.
  • Radalj was not happy with Rendall's leaving or Faulkner's greater influence[16] and left the Gurus to be replaced by ex-Fun Things guitarist Brad Shepherd, who had been Bramley's flatmate[19] and in The Hitmen and Super K. - sentence drags on a bit
Changed this whole sentence, hopefully it reads a bit better.
  • s for 7 weeks - seven, numbers less than 10 are generally spelled out unless referring to a chart
Done.
  • popularity rapidly expanded - "rapidly" can be considered POV
Deleted rapidly.
  • an unusual video clip - unusual according to whom, i may view it as normal - is this part about the video clip even necessary? seems quite pointless to me
Deleted "unusual", but I've kept the rest of the statement describing the video clip: it is referred to in many sources but I can't recall immediately one to supply a ref here... I'll keep working on this.
  • Kingsmill's brother Richard Kingsmill is an on-air presenter for the Triple J network. What relevance is this? I must of missed something
Deleted the sentence.
  • This time tThe title was a twist on a B Grade movie
Restructured this sentence: should read better.
  • although they continued producing music through the mid to late 1990s - This sounds POV like the band just turned bad in the 1990's and kept putting out bad albums in contrast to the "peak of popularity"
Should be better now.
  • Billboard 200 - Billboard 200
Done.
  • The albums reaching - reached
Done.
  • including one for broadcast by MTV America - confusing
Restructured, should be less confusing.
  • included dates in Europe, America and Australasia including Japan for the first time - try remove repetition
Done.
  • Based on their extensive touring of America, the band gained a solid following in the U.S. with regular exposure on US college radio (and later MTV's 120 Minutes) and even developed a big fan base in Brazil. references req'd.
Refs supplied.

That concludes part 2. M3tal H3ad (talk) 06:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've covered the majority (except "My Girl" video & significance of the dog).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Part 3[edit]

  • Other top 20 Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) Singles - Should 's' be capitalized?
Agreed should be lower case - done
  • I think the lead still overdoes it with the chart singles, half the lead is about chart positions
Reduced size of Lead.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Australian New Wave - Can this section be split up for either album or decade periods to make it more readable like Metallica, Megadeth and other music FAs?, it looks cluttered with 10 paragraphs
Have split it up to make it more readable
  • Second Unit Director on the latter two Matrix films - not everyone knows what they are
Clarification of two Matrix films provided
  • long time friend -> long-time friend?
Not sure but happy to go with long-time friend - done
  • The video is considered by many to be a classic Australian music video clip - source says nothing about a classic, who said this particularly, imdb is not a reliable source and the original source should be used
Found a Spiderbait quote & ref. Hope this is more reliable.
I assume imdb is still reliable for Kendall's filmography (& Faulkner's for that matter). Otherwise it will be difficult to find a more reliable on line source for filmographies.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1979 - 1981 no space
spaces removed
  • en dashes for the members section
done
fixed
    • Authors last names should be first for the references so Bob Rock would be Rock, Bob (this is correct on some)
done
You could be right, Gareth Clarke appears to have archived the old guruvosity site recently. The old site is still accessible at http://web.archive.org/web/20060430002822/guruvosity.tripod.com/theband.htm Clarke has now created a new site covering some of the same information about Hoodoo Gurus at http://gurus.wetpaint.com I'm not sure how reliable this latter site is, I've just found it today! I've put this url into the former guruvosity ref until I find a better one.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Clarke claims at http://guruvosity.tripod.com/ dated 01.11.08 to have archived the old site as a 9 MB storage I haven't downloaded it yet. I'll keep looking for a better ref.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:25, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some refs are missing publishers (49 and more)
I've thunk I got all (?) of these critters but they're damned elusive!Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to be a recent deadlink. Not yet archived? Might have to replace the ref: the statement already has one ref but it doesn't cover the name of the album (just that they had recorded together). I need to investigate further.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Found http://www.geocities.com/matt_finish_site/gigreview.html which has a gig review of the album release and a photo of album insert where Grossman describes working on the album. I've put this into the previous matt finish ref url.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image:Stems-tour.jpg fails the fair use criteria, nothing in the text refers to the design of the poster
That's about it. However, there are way too many brackets used like "recorded the band's first album, Stoneage Romeos (1984)" can be changed to "recorded the band's first album in 1984 titled Stoneage Romeos. If it were an FAC i would oppose on this basis, but it's not an FAC! :). M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Removed a lot of the pesky ( ), restructured some sentences. Hopefully it scans better for you now.
I think Dan Arndt and I have covered nearly every point raised here. Some small fiddling with refs might still be needed if you're not happy with the new ones supplied.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Only problem i see is [1] and [2] personal site (i can create pages at geocities.com) M3tal H3ad (talk) 10:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And to respond to your question, you can have however long as you want for the review as long as you are actively editing :) M3tal H3ad (talk) 10:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • In respect to the 2001 Homebake reference I am guessing you are referring to the fact that the schedule of performance times doesn't list the Persian Rugs so I have provided a further reference from the Sydney Morning Herald.Dan arndt (talk) 04:33, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please fix the dead links. M3tal H3ad (talk) 06:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Pass. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hoodoo Gurus not New Wave?[edit]

In editing Hoodoo Gurus (HG) recently User:WesleyDodds (talk) contended that HG are not New Wave and so suggested that this genre should be removed from the article. As I understand it New Wave evolved from punk and one of its sub-genre's is Power pop. Whilst HG are often referred to as college/alternate rock this disregards their earlier punk/post-punk work as Le Hoodoo Gurus (see Australian punk rock site for examples).

Another reference for HG initially being Punk/New Wave can be found at review of Tunnel Vision.

Furthermore, many references to their Power pop style are given by sources within the HG article.

I dispute WesleyDodds' contention and believe the article should retain the New Wave genre appellation. A copy of this note has been added to WesleyDodds' talk page.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(Following reply by WesleyDodds has ben cut and pasted from my talk page).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
None of those seem like reliable sources. Power-pop would be fine, I think. In the US they are definitely seen as one of the stalwart college rock bands of the 1980s. Back before alternative rock was clearly defined bands were sometimes called New Wave even if they weren't part of the movement (this happened to R.E.M. on occasion, who were in effect the antithesis of New Wave). New Wave would be fine if a consensus of credible sources agreed to it, but from what I've seen, just labeling them alternative rock seems like it would suffice. WesleyDodds (talk) 01:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
In my reading of New Wave, I believe postpunk power pop with pub rock would qualify. Another description of their music styles is at EMI's musichead site, where their evolution in styles including Australian pub rock & garage punk is described.
CBGBs showcased New Wave groups, HG performed there in the early 1980s (I think it was their first tour - before the College rock acclaim). See Australian Broadcasting Corporation article on closure of CBGBs.
Some bands mentioned in the New Wave article have been acknowledged as influences on HG including Ramones see Amazon review.
I do not dispute that HG are better known, in US, as a college/alternate rock group. However an additional overall description for their music (including when still Le Hoodoo Gurus) would be a fusion of power pop, postpunk, pub rock and garage band sound as "New Wave". Hence the genre still applies. Perhaps our definitions of "New Wave" are too different?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed my typos above: WesleyDodd > WesleyDodds (sorry about mistake).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As long as the band is generally classified as a New Wave band by reliable sources, it's fine. My comment came from the fact that they are not often called New Wave, in my experience. Here in the US New Wave is sometimes used very broadly and incorrectly by certain sources, which is one of my pet peeves. If there's one or more accurate genres that the band can be labeled as, use those. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:43, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Brad Shepherd is battling cancer[edit]

I don't have time to add it at the moment, but here's the article if anyone wishes to add it, I can't see anything on it in here or his article. Sad to hear. All the best to him. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 06:52, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name origin?[edit]

The band name merits some discussion, even in passing. Meaning, etc. --Mareklug talk 02:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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