Talk:Hot chocolate/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

Perhaps it's because I'm a chocoholic, but I was expecting far more from this article. I'm afraid it does not fulfill the Good Article criteria at this time, mainly due to lack of references and the fact that it does not cover all important aspects of the subject matter. Here are my specific concerns for future improvement:

  • Keep in mind WP:LEAD; the lead section must be a summary of the entire article. White hot chocolate is not mentioned anywhere but in the lead and in the caption of an image.
    • I've rephrased the sentence mentioning white hot chocolate to include information about the thicker hot chocolate and the thinner hot cocoa. When I expand the article further, I expect to have to add and modify sentences as necessary. Malinaccier (talk) 20:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The entire first paragraph in "Origins" has only one reference, which points back to wwww.etymonline.com. What makes this a reliable source?
    • If you look at the site, it is an online etymology encyclopedia that by browsing around it looks reliable. Also, I split the first paragraph into two and added sources. I'm still looking for further references and information. Malinaccier (talk) 20:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I did look at the site and I do not see what makes it reliable. It's not written by an authority on the subject and they don't list their own references; these are definitely red flags that the site may not meet WP:RS. I suggest finding another one to replace it. This is the only ref I looked into, but there may be others similarly dubious. María (habla conmigo) 21:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of the references are missing important information, including but not limited to author, publisher, and access date. There is also no need to point out that they are English sources; that should go without saying.
    • I'll be brushing up on the sources, but please note that since most of the sources are online, the author is not given. I removed "english" from the sources also. Malinaccier (talk) 20:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The chocolatl was a potation of chocolate flavored with vanilla and spices, and so prepared as to be reduced to a froth of the consistency of honey, which gradually dissolved in the mouth and was taken cold.": who is this quote from? William Hickling himself? Attribution in the prose is needed, or just simply paraphrase it.
    • The line above it already gives attribution: "Jose de Acosta, a Spanish Jesuit missionary who lived in Peru and then Mexico in the later 16th century, wrote of it:" Malinaccier (talk) 20:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I wasn't referring to the blockquote. The line before the quote I provided above reads Moctezuma introduced Hernán Cortés to his favourite drink, "chocolatl", which he served in a golden goblet. Again, that particular quote needs to be attributed and/or paraphrased. María (habla conmigo) 20:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ahh, sorry for the misunderstanding. I've converted the quote into prose and added an additional reference. Malinaccier (talk) 21:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "History" section is confusing; there's no explanation for how "xocolatl" became "chocolate" or when the drink was first served hot. I was assuming that the original drink made by the Mayans was served cold because the article doesn't say otherwise...? It should also be explicitly stated that the chocolate drink was the original form of consumption by the Mayans and Aztecs. Or were there other forms?
    • I've added several statements to the section and moved things around for clarity. I believe the section is much better now. Malinaccier (talk) 01:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • and "chocolate" became a fashionable drink popular with the Spanish upper class. Why just the upper class? The high demand and cost needs explanation.
    • Added: "At the time, chocolate was very expensive in Europe because the cacao beans only grew in South America.[17]" Malinaccier (talk) 01:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • as the Spanish kept the delicacy secret. How? Why? Ref?
    • I removed this as it was added before I began editing the article and I could not find a reference for it. Malinaccier (talk) 01:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because it was so expensive, hot chocolate was considered a drink for the wealthy. This needs to be mentioned (with a ref) much earlier. So the "Chocolate Houses", although popular, were only for the wealthy? Plus, how much is "so expensive"? This must be quantified with a reliable source.
    • I added an earlier referenced statement, and I quantified and explained the costs of chocolate in the statement "Even when the first Chocolate House opened in 1657, chocolate was still very expensive, costing 50 to 75 pence (approximately 50.11-75.17 USD) a pound.[18]" Malinaccier (talk) 01:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hot chocolate" is a retronym and the drink was originally simply called "chocolate". The subsequent popularity of the "chocolate bar" forced the invention of the term "hot chocolate" to distinguish it from "chocolate" which now means solid chocolate. Needs a source. Also, what is a "chocolate bar"? Define.
    • I've sourced and restated the information about the retronym, as well as attaching it to an earlier paragraph. Also, I replaced "chocolate bar" with "solid chocolate" and explained. Malinaccier (talk) 01:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some people use the terms... while others make a distinction...: Who is "some people"? From where?
    • I rephrased the sentence. Should be clearer now. Malinaccier (talk) 21:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hot chocolate can be made with dark, semisweet or bittersweet chocolate: wikilink or define these terms.
  • Some packaged hot cocoa mixes come with small dry marshmallows that are often called "mini marshmallows". This seems trivial. How are marshmallows "a modern American concept"? Source.
  • Hot chocolate and churros was the traditional working-man's breakfast in Spain. Was? It's not anymore?
    • Is it still widely eaten as a breakfast in Spain? Malinaccier (talk) 21:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The entire "Health" section needs to be qualified and expanded.
  • Studies have shown that hot chocolate contains large amounts of antioxidants that may be beneficial to one's health. What studies? When were they done? By whom? Proof? Charts? Something?
    • Added info about several studies (one by Cornell), and whipped up a nice little graph. Malinaccier (talk) 22:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hot chocolate contains high amounts of calories, saturated fat, and sugar.: from which ingredients? Is this true with all versions of hot chocolate?
  • Caffeine may also have negative effects on health. Where does the caffeine come from?

I fear there's a lot missing from this article. What about bean harvesting and the change of when chocolate became accessible to everyone, not just the rich? An entire modern history, including chocolate companies with hot chocolate/cocoa products, is missing, as is marketing. Hersheys? Nestle? Cadbury? How has presentation of the drink changed over the years? What about cold chocolate drink variations? I really think that this article can take some pointers from Coffee, which seems to have a fairly good layout. I also suggest finding far more reliable sources, preferably books and scholarly journals/articles, in order to better research and cite information. There is a lot more to cover here, but it's such an interesting subject that I'm sure it can be done. If you have any questions about this review, please feel free to contact me. Best of luck, María (habla conmigo) 13:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Currently awaiting books from the library. Malinaccier (talk) 21:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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