Talk:House music/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Hip Hop

I have removed a reference from the origins section regarding hip hop being a "stylistic origin" of house. I'm not saying it wasn't, but hip hop was still quite new at the time of the first original house productions, and no early house producer, as far as I am aware, has cited hip hop as an influence at that time. The article really does need a quote from an original house producer to substantiate the claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.77.189 (talk) 01:41, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

House music and hip hop music are nearly the same age with a mere 5-10 years difference setting them apart. The heavy use of 808 beats in oldschool house music was influenced by hip hop and electro. Also many 50's R&B tracks were sampled amongst disco.69.120.195.252 (talk) 03:08, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, house and hip hop have some of the same influences and precursors, and your points about 50s R&B and disco are valid (although "sampling" in the modern sense was not part of the original disco scene), but hip hop was not that far advanced or influential at the time of the first original house productions in 1984/85 and is not cited by those producing that music. Original research or our thoughts in 2014 are not valid sources for changing Wikipedia articles. Before incorporating such changes, we really do need reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.92.84 (talk) 12:58, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I will be re ADDING B-Boy Hip Hop as a source for the GENRE of Chicago House Music as the music of Man Parrish, Afrika Bambatta, and specifically their use of the 808 Drum Machine the Linn Drum, etc. helped set a format for electronic music INCLUDING House. Song's like "Hip Hop Be Bop" by Man Parrish, Hip Hop remixes done by Arthur Baker such as "I.O.U" by Freeze, "I Want it to be Real" by John Rocca "Confusion" by New Order, and songs like "Girls - Aha Hi" by Solo produced by John Robie, the fact is they were using the Roland 808, Linn Drum, etc. in ways that were emulated by Jesse Sanders, Farley Jack Master Funk and Steve Silk Hurley for tracks they made in the ORIGINAL genre of Chicago House Music DJ Black Adam (talk)

Stylistic Origins - Opinions And Original Research Not Facts?

User 24.213.166.20 persistently reverts the "stylistic origins" section to reflect his/her view, but does not see fit to enter substantiated links or explanations. His/her opinion/original research is not enough. No house music pioneer cites garage music as an inspiration/origin for house, and no music historian separates Chicago house, the genre's beginning, from the house genre. Any crossovers since house's creation are fusions, not "origins". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.112.191 (talk) 19:47, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

But house and chicago house are different genres according to wikipedia and some of the first songs played at the warehouse were 808 remixes of NY disco, jazz and garage.69.120.195.252 (talk) 03:05, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I repeat: The Wikipedia article on Chicago house states that it is not a different genre, but merely refers to the first original house music productions. "Chicago house is not a particular style of house music; the term is generally used to refer to the first ever house music productions, which were by Chicago-based artists"... Your thoughts on garage music are interesting, but once again you seem to be lacking in reliable sources. In the 1980s and 1990s we referred to "house and garage music" as separate, not to "garage house". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.92.84 (talk) 13:09, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

(86.131.92.84 (talk) 13:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC))

Stylistic origins

Chicago house is technically different from house music. House music technically is a mixture between New York's garage music and Chicago house. Garage music and Chicago house should be added to the stylistic origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.213.166.20 (talk) 18:09, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Garage music has also been influenced by house since its creation. So, the two forms are related but not the same, each contains elements of the other. Chicago house is early house, so not a different genre and therefore not a different style - so not a "stylistic origin". I have left the stylistic origins section as you edited it as this is becoming a pointless exercise in reverting and un-reverting. With the greatest of respect, I think that Chicago house and Garage Music do not belong in the Stylistic origins section — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.113.119 (talk) 18:15, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

also, the beginnings and evolution of house music are fully covered in the article. Both house and garage had influences and precursors in common, and these are fully covered in the article. None of my 1980s/90s house literature refers to garage as an origin of house music. They were separate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.113.119 (talk) 18:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Garage and Chicago house should be added for two main reasons. Wikipedia classifies Chicago house as a different genre than house music. All house after the chicago era have been influenced by earlier chicago house tracks. Along with disco and new york styled jazz, garage was also being spun at the Warehouse. Furthermore garage was being experimentedwith by NY DJs that moved to Chicago to get in on the underground basement party scene that was the precursor to not just house music but Rave culture in general.69.120.195.252 (talk) 03:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article on Chicago house states that it is not a different genre, but merely refers to the first original house music productions: "Chicago house is not a particular style of house music; the term is generally used to refer to the first ever house music productions, which were by Chicago-based artists"... Your thoughts on garage music are interesting, but once again you seem to be lacking in reliable sources. In the 1980s and 1990s we referred to "house and garage music" as separate, not to "garage house". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.92.84 (talk) 13:07, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

(86.131.92.84 (talk) 13:14, 30 March 2014 (UTC))

Rhythm and Blues and Hip Hop's Influence on House

House music and hip hop music are nearly the same age with a mere 5-10 years difference setting them apart. The heavy use of 808 beats in oldschool house music was influenced by hip hop and electro. Also many 50's R&B tracks were sampled amongst disco.69.120.195.252 (talk) 03:06, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, house and hip hop have some of the same influences and precursors, and your points about 50s R&B and disco are valid (although "sampling" in the modern sense was not part of the original disco scene), but hip hop was not that far advanced or influential at the time of the first original house productions in 1984/85 and is not cited by those producing that music. Original research or our thoughts in 2014 are not valid sources for changing Wikipedia articles. Before incorporating such changes, we really do need reliable sources. Please read Wikipedia's rules regarding revisions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.92.84 (talk) 13:00, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I will be re ADDING B-Boy Hip Hop as a source for the GENRE of Chicago House Music as the music of Man Parrish, Afrika Bambatta, and specifically their use of the 808 Drum Machine the Linn Drum, etc. helped set a format for electronic music INCLUDING House. Song's like "Hip Hop Be Bop" by Man Parrish, Hip Hop remixes done by Arthur Baker such as "I.O.U" by Freeze, "I Want it to be Real" by John Rocca "Confusion" by New Order, and songs like "Girls - Aha Hi" by Solo produced by John Robie, the fact is they were using the Roland 808, Linn Drum, etc. in ways that were emulated by Jesse Sanders, Farley Jack Master Funk and Steve Silk Hurley for tracks they made in the ORIGINAL genre of Chicago House Music DJ Black Adam (talk)

  • Contemporary R&B came out and was popularized at the same time diva house was which was probably the first incarnation of house music as far as the United States is concerned. So house music is just contemporary r&b music with electronic beats. And nowadays y'all consider contemporary r&b just simply r&b and anyone who is smart agrees with me. Boaxy (talk) 06:15, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2014

Electronic genres influences in this genre Thewatertribe (talk) 18:05, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: It's not clear what you're wanting changed and what reliable sources support the change. —C.Fred (talk) 18:11, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2014

electronic influence genres in this music genre Inidian maninian (talk) 02:46, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 05:33, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Electronica?

I have inserted "Electronica" as one of the stylistic origins of house after an edit made by another editor. I do not believe that the modern day local newspaper article linked to by the other editor is admissable for a Wikipedia edit - and it does not actually state that "Electronica" is a stylistic origin of house, but I will search for other more historical sources on the subject as I believe that "Electronica" is a wide umbrella term, which has been applied to electronic music by some sources since the early day of this genre.

(Etheldavis (talk) 13:26, 9 November 2014 (UTC))

I can see your point, it's just a bit superfluous to give an umbrella term as a "stylistic origin", especially when we already list hi-NRG and electro with references (was there any other electronic music around before house which influenced it?) I thought people didn't start talking about "electronica" until the late 80s, but I'm open to being shown wrong. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 23:35, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Influence of Dub

A lot of original house tracks were drenched in dub sound effects and samples. In addition to this most if not all Chicago house tracks had dub b-sides. It should be included in the stylistic origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.194.67 (talk) 22:41, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

This article must be based on a summary of published sources, not the assertions of individual editors. If anyone here makes assertions about the topic, they must be verifiable, found in published sources. So let's start talking about sources. Binksternet (talk) 02:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Soulful house

The soulful house is distinct from other styles of house and should be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.27.48.244 (talk) 19:42, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Electro?

I want to insert electro as first influence genre instead of disco though is a electronic music genre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.211.45.66 (talk) 23:38, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

The order of stylistic origins listed is unimportant and as there was the "disco edits" phase in the evolution of house music, your claim is controversial. It is true to say that house was influenceed by both genres. Please do not make edits without good sources. The article you link to is unacceptable as the author provides no explanation, just casually throws in the claim. Anybody can write anything on-line and newspapers are not always dependable resources.

(Etheldavis (talk) 12:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC))

Synthpop

I saw synthpop as strong influence in this genre so I ask that if should I put it in stylistic origins — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.211.45.66 (talk) 04:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

It's certainly worth considering, but we need consensus. Please do not make genre edits without consensus/reliable sources.You also slipped in "Chicago house" without mentioning the fact - but this is not a separate genre of house music, merely an in-depth article on its beginnings.

(Etheldavis (talk) 12:45, 19 April 2015 (UTC))

I have an strong source and consensus by adding this genre saw it here http://www.allmusic.com/subgenre/house-ma0000002651

Views on Allmusic differ and I'm not sure how the source measures up as a Wiki resource - particularly the unsourced opinion of one writer on Allmusic. You don't have a consensus because this is provided by agreement of other editors. I've left your edit because I am uncertain of its validity.

(Etheldavis (talk) 22:02, 15 May 2015 (UTC))

Soul, jazz, dub, funk, post-disco

I've had read about house music in other sources and I saw that is very influenced by dub, soul, funk and jazz

Music theory?

Isnt this article missing any detail on the musical figures, rythmic buildup etc on house music? Even if the music theory for house is quite straightforward, i think this part is definately missing here. I make electronic music myself, and came here to check that out.(31.05.2015) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.120.95.232 (talk) 12:40, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

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Chosen Few

I think the Chosen Few festival, an annual festival that is strictly house music and takes place in Chicago, should be mentioned. I would add it to the article, but I don't know where to put it. House music is alive and well in its birthplace of Chicago. B-Machine (talk) 18:14, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

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Stylistic origins

I added a few more genres that were covered by the existing sources yet weren't added for some reason.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 04:22, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

House and Garage and Stylistic Origins...

I have corrected a couple of edits here - one of which stated that house was "rooted" in garage. Untrue, as has been discussed before - house and garage came about within the same time period, but independently. No house artist has ever stated that garage was the 'root' of house. What fascinates me about both genres was the impact of newly released electronic music-making equipment. In more recent years, garage seems to have been brought under the house umbrella. I have also removed reference to house being developed from a "post disco" style. This seemed rather nebulous - as the origins of house were rather diverse, and although it definitely began in the post-disco era, some of the influences predate disco. This is fully addressed in the stylistic origins section.

(Solidsandie (talk) 18:21, 4 March 2017 (UTC))

@Solidsandie: One of the sources I added explicitly states that garage and house share an identical origin story. I'm not much of a house devotee - I've only skimmed through a few compilations and books, and they all seem to suggest that garage and house were the same thing until Chicago DJs carved a distinct style for themselves.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 08:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

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