Talk:Indra Devi

Indra Devi has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: April 18, 2020. (Reviewed version).

Yoga High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Yoga, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Yoga, Hatha yoga, Yoga as exercise and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.YogaWikipedia:WikiProject YogaTemplate:WikiProject YogaYoga articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

India Low‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hinduism Low‑importance

	Hinduism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Yoga_as_exercise#Differences|yoga in the West]] The anchor (#Differences) has been deleted by other users before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

with Groucho Marx[edit]

At some point in the 1950s or so, she appeared as a guest on Groucho Marx's American television show "You Bet Your Life". The episode is (or at least was, for many years) available amongst the set of episodes that have been rerun; possibly now on DVD (?) --Groucho asked her about what was involved in taking up a spiritual life. In response, she included a remark that sometimes it involved giving up a favorite activity..."For instance, you might have to give up your cigars." Groucho paused to move his cigar, and his eyes fell on it as he briefly contemplated the difficulty this might involve. He nodded and expressed this; you could see that he understood this small introduction to yoga. Publius3 (talk) 11:13, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You Bet Your Life #54-08, Nov 4, 1954. 82.69.73.157 (talk) 00:32, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Krishnamachariya etc[edit]

Man I don't know how the wikipedia works exactly. But my edits are mostly from Michelle Goldberg's book, with some other Russian sources from https://wildyogi.info/ru/issue/natalya-klevalina-%C2%ABindra-devi-postavivshaya-mir-na-golovu%C2%BB ... Added by Serge from unit 108. This is stupid.

If anything the death of her first husband would be a controversial topic. He was most likely killed by NKVD, if you ask me. Otherwise how would a former diplomat disappear all of a sudden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unit108yoga (talk • contribs) 04:58, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And if you ever saw any evidence of Krishnamachariya's worldwide fame prior to the 1953 "Forever young forever healthy" book please let me know. (added by User:Unit108yoga)

Hi, and thanks for replying. Wikipedia works by referencing reliable sources so that other editors can verify any claims made. I'm glad you have used a good source in Michelle Goldberg's book. All you need to do, therefore, is add a citation to the pages of the book that you are referencing after each claim. Your cited texts will look like this:

Devi did such-and-such in 19xx.<ref name="Goldberg 2015 p.123">{{cite book | last=Goldberg | first=Michelle | title=The goddess pose : the audacious life of Indra Devi, the woman who helped bring yoga to the West | publisher=Alfred A. Knopf | publication-place=New York | year=2015 | isbn=978-0-307-47744-6 | oclc=900634264 | page=123}}</ref>

where you replace "123" with the actual page number. You can use pages=123-127 instead when you need to name a range of pages. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:19, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised that after all the discussions, here and on user pages, you are STILL seeing fit to restore uncited materials. That is wholly unacceptable, and grossly uncollegiate given that we were talking about how to do the job properly. Please stop, and either learn how to cite sources, indeed to cite them at all, or stop editing: it's disruptive and a waste of time and effort. Thank you. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but why the Russian article was removed as a source? It corroborates almost all the information, plus it has a bunch of details that Goldberg doesn't know about. It was originally published in 2010, years before Goldberg's book - http://www.vokrugsveta.ru/vs/article/7175/ For me the easiest source is an autobiographical interview she gave to the Russian TV, republished in 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjEM4VMNoY — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unit108yoga (talk • contribs) 04:25, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no point dumping materials at the end of an article as external links unless they have a function in the article, i.e. to support specific claims. Where it says the same as the existing sources, adding more refs won't help much; so, clearly, the value will lie in any verifiable claims that add usefully to the article. If you want to use Vokrug sveta as a source, best would be to cite it properly like the other items in "Sources", and then add sfn links to it from the places in the article that it supports; maybe I'll have a go with it. Not sure which Goldberg (Michelle or Elliott) you are talking about, by the way. I've mainly used Elliott G., along with Syman. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ok got it. I'll try to comply with the format. I just thought it's weird that the person who essentially introduced what is now called "asana" to the mainstream western world has an article that is so dismissive of her. Without her the western "yoga" would not happen, there would be no Iyengar and no Pattabhi Jois to talk about. I referred to Michelle Goldberg, the NYT columnist. I'll get the Elliot's book, sounds interesting. Although there's also Alpert's "Be Here Now" thing that can't be avoided, if you are talking about resacralizing yoga (and incorrectly linking Tantra to sex). Indra Devi was a self-proclaimed atheist who sincerely believed in miracles (and the UFOs and all of that). I'll read anything about Kuvalayananda I can get my hands on, because a lot of misinformation comes from him. They did have Paramahamsa Madhavdas as a guide, so in a way it should be more authentic than whatever came from Mysore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:1280:C56B:281A:D755:E2CC:51BD (talk) 04:20, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It is vital that you sign your comments on talk pages: please add ~~~~ at the end of each comment to sign and date it (or press the signature button near the top left of the edit window). I don't see anything "dismissive" about the article; on the contrary, it is quiet, detailed, of necessity neutral, but certainly respectful, and it explains her contribution at some length. She did not bring Iyengar to the West, however, and her influence on Jois was indirect at best: MG writes that she "planted the seeds for the yoga boom of the 1990s" (p271) which probably states the case as strongly as it could be put. Kuvalayananda made a major contribution by helping to make the practice of asana acceptable in 20th century India, by "medicalising" it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:17, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Indra Devi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 04:14, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for taking this on. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:39, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria[edit]

1. Prose ✓ Pass

2. Verifiability ✓ Pass

3. Depth of Coverage ✓ Pass

4. Neutral ✓ Pass

5. Stable ✓ Pass

6. Illustrations ✓ Pass - AGF

7. Miscellaneous ✓ Pass

Comments[edit]

1.

See MOS:OVERLINK. I don't think India needs linked. Same with Argentina

Removed.

"believed to be the first Yoga" - This is the first time yoga is capitalized, the rest are lowercase. This should be consistent.

Fixed.

Link guru at first mention

Done.

Sari is a duplink

Fixed.

"St Petersburg" - Should there be a period after "St"?

Saint it is.

2.

See WP:RSP. Find a Grave is not a reliable source.

Removed.

"yoga teachers.[9][6][14]" - Some editors are very particular that refs should be in numerical order, it's probably best to have them in numerical order so no complaints are caused

Done.

"respected mother".[17][9]" - Ref order

Done.

"Devi recorded several instructional talks on yoga in the 1970s, including "Renew Your Life with Yoga."[35]" - The ref provided does not seem to include the 1970s anywhere.

Said 'later' instead.

Do we have ISBNs for her first three works, or just OCLCs?

OCLC is all that's available for those early days.

Ref 5 needs the author and an accessdate

Added.

Ref 7 needs an accessdate

Added.

Ref 10 needs an accessdate

Added.

The page ranges in the references should have endashes, not the short dashes

Done. This definitely comes under the category of "life's too short to stuff mushrooms".

Ref 17 needs the author

Added.

Ref 22 needs the accessdate

Added.

The sources should be in alphabetical order

Sorted, in both senses.

Looks like there's a weird markup error in one of the sources, not entirely sure where the error is though.

Fixed.

3.

Date of birth isn't in the main prose.

Added.

The sections about India and China aren't summarized in the lead

Added.

4.

5.

6.

AGF on the album cover image. Can't verify if it was published without a copyright notice or not, but I'll assume good faith that the file tagging is accurate.

Noted.

7.

@Chiswick Chap: - Ref 37's to Find a Grave yet. It looks like it may not be necessary. That looks like all that's left before this'll pass. Hog Farm (talk) 14:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:44, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]