Talk:Invincible (Michael Jackson album)/Archive 1

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album sales

i think instead of putting specific years that Invincible sold well it should note that for the decade it sold 14 million. the reason for this is that not only did he sell in 2004 and 2009, but also in 2002 and 2003 not to mention its initial release in 2001.......oz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.11.155.23 (talk) 16:11, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Where are you getting 14 million from? The album sold 2.1 million copies in the USA, 200,000 in Germany, 300,000 in the UK, 140,000 in Australia and less than 50,000 in Canada. These are the Worlds largest music markets (where the majority of album sales come from). If you add all these figures up you get 2.79 million. FAR from 14 million. Invincible has sold NO MORE than 8 million copies (and that's being generous). 14 million copies is what an unrealistic MJ fan would have wanted Invincible to have sold...I consider myself a REALISTIC MJ fan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.40.124 (talk) 13:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree- the 14 million number is completely fabricated. It undermines wikipedia when people write what they wished happened rather than what actually did. There is only evidence for around 3 million (4 max) from the major music markets. If we accept that it sold 2 million in the USA, 300K in the UK, 200K in Germany, 100K in France, 140K in Australia etc. Where is the extra 10 million coming from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.151.119 (talk) 16:44, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

From the other 200 countries. TbhotchTalk C. 23:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
There are 195 countries IN THE WORLD. So 195 minus all the countries of Europe (50), NA (3), Australia + NZ and Japan (3) = 139 countries. SO, 10,000,000 copies must have been sold within these 139 counties. Thats roughly 72,000 copies for each country. Now let's look at specific countries within South America. Argentina and Brazil for example are the biggest markets within that continent. Invincible was certified GOLD (20,000 copies) in Argentina and was not certified in Brazil (so less than 20,000 copies were sold there). Lets look at some of the other countries in SA; Peru, Columbia, Chile, Uruguay, Venezuela, Paraguay, and Ecuador. Invincible was not certified Gold or Platinum in any of these countries. Thus it must have sold less than 3,000 (Peru), less than 10,000 (Columbia), less than 5,000 (Chile), less than 2,000 (Uruguay), less than 5,000 (Venezuela), less than 5,000 (Paraguay), and less than 3,000 (Ecuador). As you can see, Invincible has not sold even close to 72,000 copies in ANY of these countries. Pretty compelling argument, but let's continue looking at the evidence.
On to Africa. South Africa is the largest market in this continent BY FAR. In fact South Africa and Egypt are the ONLY two countries within Africa to even have album certification databases! Invincible was not certified Gold or Platinum in either country, thus it must have sold less than 25,000 copies in South Africa and less than 5,000 copies in Egypt. Again, as you can see Invincible has not sold even close to 72,000 copies in ANY African nation.
On to Asia. Invincible has not achieved any certifications in China (less than 10,000 sold), the Gulf Cooperation Council (less than 3,000 copies sold throughout the Middle East), India (less than 7,500 copies sold), Indonesia (less than 10,000 copies sold), Lebanon (less than 5,000 copies sold), Malaysia (less than 7,500 copies sold), South Korea (less than 5,000), Taiwan (less than 5,000), Thailand (less than 5,000), or Turkey (less than 5,000). Again, far from coming even close to the 72,000 copies.
Another way I can help you understand that Invincible has not sold even close to 14 million copies is if I compare it's Certifications with that of Madonna's 2005 LP Confessions on a Dance Floor which has been reported to sell 12 million copies world wide.
Canada: Confessions - 5x Platinum (500,000). Invincible - Uncertified (less than 50,000).
USA: Confessions - Platinum (1.7 million). Invincible - 2x Platinum (2.1 million).
Europe: Confessions - 4x Platinum (4 million). Invincible - 2x Platinum (2 million).
Japan: Confessions - 2x Platinum (500,000). Invincible - Platinum (250,000).
Australia: Confessions - 2x Platinum (140,000). Invincible - 2x Platinum (140,000).
New Zealand: Confessions - Platinum (15,000). Invincible - Platinum (15,000).
Mexico: Confessions - Platinum (60,000). Invincible - Uncertified (less than 30,000).
Argentina: Confessions - 2x Platinum (80,000). Invincible - Gold (20,000).
Brazil: Confessions - Gold (20,000). Invincible - Uncertified (less than 20,000).
Confessions on a Dance Floor's total is ~ 7 million. Invincible's is ~ 4.5 million. Yet Invincible is said to have sold 14 million and Confessions 12 million? Doesn't make sense and I've clearly given the proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by D bovair1988 (talk • contribs) 03:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Just because it is not certified does not mean that didn't sell more than the request sales, see My Life Would Suck Without You sold over 2k copies in the US and never was certified also All I Ever wanted (album) is a gold album and nothing. TbhotchTalk C. 03:19, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I have a really good idea to try and make you understand this more clearly. I'm going to compare two of MJ's studio albums sales/certifications.
HIStory vs. Invincible.
Canada: HIStory - 5x Platinum (500,000). Invincible - Uncertified (less than 50,000).
USA: HIStory - 7x Platinum (3.5 million). Invincible - 2x Platinum (2.1 million).
Europe: HIStory - 6x Platinum (6 million). Invincible - 2x Platinum (2 million).
Japan: HIStory - 3x Platinum (750,000). Invincible - Platinum (250,000).
Australia: HIStory - 8x Platinum (560,000). Invincible - 2x Platinum (140,000).
New Zealand: HIStory - 9x Platinum (135,000). Invincible - Platinum (15,000).
Mexico: HIStory - 2x Platinum (120,000). Invincible - Uncertified (less than 30,000).
Argentina: HIStory - Platinum (40,000). Invincible - Gold (20,000).
Brazil: HIStory - Gold (20,000). Invincible - Uncertified (less than 20,000).
So if you add up HIStory's sales you get ~ 11,625,000 copies sold/shipped. Invincible's are at 4,500,000 copies sold/shipped. Now, HIStory is said to have sold around 20,000,000 copies. That means that it must have sold around 8,375,000 copies elsewhere in the world. According to you, Invincible is said to have sold 14,000,000 copies. That means it must have sold 9,500,000 copies elsewhere around the world. SO, even though HIStory outsold Invincible by EVERY country it has been certified in, you're saying that in every other country that Invincible has not been certified in, that it has actually sold MORE than HIStory. Not only is this highly unlikely, it is impossible.
What I tried to point before is that we cannot base ourselves on certifications, not all albums are immediatly certified, also you listed many of the main worldwide markets, but they are not the world. Basing us on what certifications states is WP:OR, also Thriller (album) will sell, what, 25 million copies? That's why we utilize reliable sources that state a number, they only know which are their sources, but that's the way we work. TbhotchTalk C. 23:51, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
If we base Thriller's sales on certifications then it has sold roughly 40 million copies, not 25 million, just to clear that up. I'll try to find some more accurate sources than the ONE that's been used on wiki that states that Invincible has sold 13 million. Until then, I'll leave it at that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.40.124 (talk) 15:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the 13 million figure should be left in. The point of wiki is to state facts which can be backed up evidence. The evidence suggests it sold what like 4 maybe 5 million? To almost triple that number is ridiculous. If thats the benchmark why not do the same to every artists' sales? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.107.34 (talk) 13:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Invincible was number one in over 14 countries and you want to say that this is not enough for 14 Million sales? That's ridicolous! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.123.59.89 (talk) 14:08, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

What a fatuous statement. The number of countries it debuted at number one in is totally irrelevant to this argument. I should mention that an album debuting at number one in 14 countries is not spectacular. In contrast, Madonna's album Music debuted at #1 in 25 countries back in 2000. In any case, if the album had sold 13 or 14 million copies, the press wouldn't have labeled the project a flop, and Michael wouldn't have gone on a press tour blaming Sony / Tony Motolla for it's "lackluster" sales. I know you hardcore MJ fans have trouble accepting the fact that Michael had a flop album, but this is a fact, stop denying it.

Slash ?(etc)

Slash in interviews refers to his work with Jackson as if it was just in the 1990s. And he's not credited on the album's liner notes. Yet lots of sources state he plays on Privacy and Jackson DOES scream "SLASH!" during the song. Methinks someone should look into this? (Chill (talk) 04:14, 27 July 2010 (UTC))


perhaps we need to go a little further with the information in the opening paragraph?--169.139.19.114 (talk) 13:59, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


i think the fact that there was a problem with the record label , and that consequently more songs were meant to be released (an incompleted album) should be noted in the first paragraph.--169.139.19.117 (talk) 13:40, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Reception

I changed the "well-received" claim to "mixed", as the reviews initially put here show that, as well as the Metacritic reference. Dan56 (talk) 04:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Someone keeps inflating the scores various outlets gave the album - can we lock those? 71.83.166.41 (talk) 04:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Invincible not mentioned in the Opus

I'm a huge fan of Invincible. I've listened to it for 2 months straight now, everyday - nothing else. I analyze Michael Jackson music, it's what I do. The other day something dawned on me - I wonder if this album "Invincible" is mentioned in the Opus? hmmm.. it's a pretty big book, I haven't been through every page, but I was curious so I thumbed through every page and guess what - NOTHING - not a photo, not a word! I emailed Opus-Kraken - they said "we'll email you within 24 hours" that was days ago! I just went on the Sony website and typed in "Invincible" - nothing! Now at this point I'm angry - I can't get over the fact it's not in the Opus, let 'lone not on Sony's website. This is what I found on Sony:

Five of Jackson's solo albums Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous and , all with Epic Records, a Sony Music label are among the top-sellers of all time. During his extraordinary career, he sold an estimated 750 million records worldwide, released 13 No.1 singles and became one of a handful of artists to be inducted twice into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Guinness Book of World Records recognized Jackson as the Most Successful Entertainer of All Time and Thriller as the Biggest Selling Album of All Time. Jackson won 13 Grammy Awards and received the American Music Award's Artist of the Century Award

Epic website only refers to the above - nothing about Invincible.

So let me go check the actual CD - yep, sure enough Sony and Epic's name all over it.

Shouldn't this be something mentioned in this Wikipedia? As of 9/5/2010 I have decided that NO this isn't something that should be mentioned - the fact that Invincible is NOT mentioned in the official Opus. However I will post my reply from Opus/Kraken when I asked the questions as to "why, isn't this album mentioned"

Dear Franci, The Michael Jackson Opus was deliberately designed not to talk about every MJ album or tour. Colleagues and friends were chosen to contribute their personal memories to give a new and indeed original insight to the man the public were not privy to. In taking this approach it may be that the Invincible album may not have been referred to directly.

Teddy Riley who co-produced Invincible was asked and did contribute an insightful story (page 129) that does indirectly effect the last studio album Michael recorded. So Franci, to answer your question, no, you didn't over look a thing. At the same time, editorially, no conscious decision was made to comment on that particular album or not to comment on it. We do hope that you still love the Opus and feel closer to MJ having read it.

Regards The Opus Team Lara Allen PA KRAKENGROUP

READ AND SEE IF YOU CAN FIND THE CONNECTION ...

Never Settle by Teddy Riley

Michael and I first spoke in 1990 over the phone. I couldn’t believe how aggressive he was because the first thing he said was “hey Teddy are you here?” and I said “no am I suppose to be?” Michael said “yes come tomorrow”. I needed enough time to get in the studio and put together some tracks so I said “not that fast”. About a week and half later they flew me first class to California. I brought with me about 50 or 60 basic tracks I’d done. Some of them had melodies some didn’t.

I’d never been in a helicopter before so I took a car to Neverland. His staff greeted me at the gate and brought me inside the house but Michael was nowhere to be found. So they put me in what I call his trophy room that had all kinds of awards in it, but the one thing that captured my eyes was his chess set: It was gold and platinum. I went to mess with it, picked up one of the pieces and turned to see Michael standing right behind me. He scared the living heck out of me. He fell on the ground laughing and couldn’t stop because he saw how my eyes had lid up. Scared as heck.

From there we started taking. He asked me a lot of regular personal questions then he started quizzing me about my music. Specifically about this song that was from my first “Guy” album called “Spend The Night”. He started scatting and beatboxing different parts of it wanting to know where I’d gotten certain sounds.

He told me “Spend The Night” was his favorite of my songs and wanted me to give him something stronger then that. I was so hyped to play for him what I’d brought but he only had a dance studio there. He said we’d go to the recording studio the next day and took me on a tour around Neverland the zoo and the park where he had the rides. Then we sat down and talked some more until I got tired. Michael convinced me to ride the helicopter back to L.A. where he had booked a room for me at the Universal Hilton. I didn’t check out until a year and two months later.

He thought I should be close to his studio and, you know, I’m going to listen because he’s the teacher. “Stay close to your music” he said so that’s what I did . Our first day at the studio, just watching Michael listen to my music, was the biggest experience in my life. The first track I played for him was Blood on the Dance Floor and he went crazy. I played a few more then on the fifth track he stopped me. I thought ok that’s it I’m done. Then he told me to come to the back room where he had his piano. We sat down and he asked me to play the actual chords and everything to the track. I thought he was testing me. We stayed in that room for about 5 hours coming up with a melody for what became “Remember The Time” that was the first days lesson.

Then he asked me to stay at the studio. Literally to see if I wanted a bedroom there because he thought it would be a great idea. I told him I preferred Larrabee (recording studio). So he took over the entire studio, chose a room all the way in the back and made it his bedroom. I found an empty lounge close to the kitchen they (Michael’s staff) made it into my bedroom. Ultimately, I slept at the studio more then the hotel. I just kept working and working and working because I was worried about whether I would make the album.

He had already recorded dozens of songs with other producers he wasn’t going to use. Then one day he told me it was cool if I wanted to start doing interviews about the album. I said well what about songs, what should I mention? He said ok we’re going to sit down and I’m going to tell you all your songs that will make the album. I felt confident “Remember The Time” would make the cut but I was blown away when he mentioned the names of 6 other songs we had done together. “These are all great” he said. Great was one of the things he always said to me “never settle for anything less then great in everything that you do.” And I took that with me. Michael taught me so much that I could probably fill a whole book.

I have more to say about this, but this is not the place Franci

111FAS (talk) 02:04, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Vocal Range

The Vocal Range Of Michael Jackson's Invincible: Bb2-Bb5

1. Unbreakable: Gb3-Ab5

2. Heartbreaker: Gb3-Bb5

3. Invincible: Ab3-Gb5

4. Break Of Dawn: F3-F5

5. Heaven Can Wait: Bb2-B4

6. You Rock My World: D3-G5

7. Butterflies: Eb3-F5

8. Speechless: F3-C#5

9. 2000 Watts: Bb2-G5

10. You Are My Life: E3-C5

11. Privacy: E3-A5

12. Don't Walk Away: D3-C#5

13. Cry: C#3-Eb5

14. The Lost Children: C3-Bb4

15. Whatever Happens: Eb3-Eb5

16. Threatened: Db3-Gb5

Should we add this? Any corrections? AttilaBrady (talk) 19:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

AttilaBrady, I am impressed with the information you've provided - what range! I say YES, add it!111FAS (talk) 01:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)111FAS

Recent edits Jan-Feb 2010

I have made a couple of edits. Firstly grammar: Invincible is the tenth and last studio album by American recording artist Michael Jackson released in his lifetime. TO

Invincible is the tenth and last studio album to be released in Michael Jackson's lifetime.

92.233.71.47 (talk) 08:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Second edit pertaining to incorrect representation of source in Line 45: Composition. Reworded to represent reference reference textfaithfully. 92.233.71.47 (talk) 09:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

13 million...

I honestly don't think the claim of 13 million copies worldwide for the album is very accurate at all. According to one sales researcher, Invincible sold less than five million copies. And depending on the countries it was released, even if it was released to 70 countries, it still wouldn't have amount to "13 million" considering the United States still has the biggest music market (which likely won't be diminished) and the album only sold about 2.2 million in the states. Unless it's stated it shipped 13 million, then I request we remove it. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 05:21, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

And this "one sales researcher" is? Unless you prove The Huffington Post is wrong, it can't be challenged. Tbhotch.™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 00:40, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

final album...

would it not be in his honor better to say final in his lifetime(at the beginning of paragraph), since in the coming months maybe more "studio " albums(cash-in attemps) may come out; also it would be an objective indication of what he released before and whatever the music companies released after Invincible........oz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.11.155.184 (talk) 16:35, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

It is imposible that more "studio albums" come from Jackson, like all releases after his death, further albums will be compilations. TbhotchTalk C. 16:38, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


perhaps we can combine both our ideas--(talk) 13:57, 16 J--169.139.19.114 (talk) 14:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)--169.139.19.114 (talk) 14:07, 3 June 2011 (UTC)uly 2010 (UTC)talk:68.223.154.178|talk]]) 20:51, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


how about a combination like " is the final album in his lifetime, all further albums would be compilations" this would reflect a compromise of both ideas above.--169.139.19.117 (talk) 13:44, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

That would get away a little of topic TbhotchTalk C. 19:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


INSTEAD of... "Invincible is the tenth album by American recording artist Michael jackson,and the last non-compilation album of his music to be released before his death in 2009." why not adjust it so that it reads..."Invincible is the last album by American recording artist Michael Jackson in his lifetime,and the last non-compilation album."...this would make the grammatical structure more fluid and instead of two fragmented sentences you would have one grammatically correct one.--169.139.19.117 (talk) 13:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


Invincible is the last studio album by American recording artist Michael Jackson in his lifetime (would be a good way to honor him--65.10.14.41 (talk) 15:59, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


would it be possible to compromise and say "from albums that started in the 70's this is his final album in his lifetime."--169.139.19.117 (talk) 14:13, 17 September 2010 (UTC)


whatsmore, we could make an indirect reference to all the albums--65.8.189.159 (talk) 15:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

But why? Still out of context, this is the last in his ten and last in his lifetime, we could not add things that do not belog here. TbhotchTalk C. 17:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

i feel this would be a way of honoring his musical legacy--169.139.19.117 (talk) 13:50, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

and it would include the 70's--65.8.187.2 (talk) 16:48, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

this would be better than what is currently on--169.139.19.117 (talk) 13:55, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

i think that the change would add to the general article--169.139.19.117 (talk) 13:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

how can we pay him the honor he deserves if we do not have a lead off paragraph that indicates his career started in the 70's--169.139.19.117 (talk) 14:34, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a memorial place. TbhotchTalk C. 17:24, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


i believe now with the compilation album "michael", it is important to indicate his solo career more clearly--169.139.19.117 (talk) 15:21, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


there must be a better way to start this paragraph and i agree that new alnum compilation may get confused with this--65.8.191.26 (talk) 17:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Michael - Invincible, compilation - studio, 2010 - 2001, I don't know how they can be confused. TbhotchTalk C. 20:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

but is this really the message the reader is getting, i don't believe so, it needs to be reworked( tried to s auto sign but it would'nt.....oz)

  • i agree Michael(compilation album) might be confusing in this sense--65.8.191.238 (talk) 16:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
  • i beliebe a change is needed at the begining of the article,,,,,,,,,,,,,merry xmas--98.64.25.76 (talk) 15:32, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
  • unbelievable,,,,,,,,,,,the lead sentence needs fixing!--74.233.241.48 (talk) 17:37, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
  • why isn't the lead sentence corrected to say his last album, period?--169.139.19.114 (talk) 14:51, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
    • is the tenth and last studio album I don't know you, but it cleary says it. TbhotchTalk and C. 20:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


well i don't know MR . TBhotc however the article should start from a more neutral point of view,,,,"last in his lifetime" why mention 10th album when there will never be an 11th?--74.233.241.168 (talk) 13:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 


WRONG WAY TO INTRO,,,--65.8.189.115 (talk) 16:30, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

cant believ this paragraph is still the same , it sucks--169.139.19.114 (talk) 14:57, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

someone change this thing ,,,,,,please a better introduction and better GRAMMAR--74.233.173.124 (talk) 16:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


I BELIEVE A SUPERVISOR NEEDS TO LOOK AT THIS WHOLE ARTICLE--65.8.187.31 (talk) 16:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


i believe they (superviser ) have a message board--65.8.191.136 (talk) 16:04, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


why are my edits reverted,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is nuts--74.233.173.216 (talk) 16:27, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


we have to have faith this intro can be fixed, without getting punished for it--74.233.173.45 (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


if INVINCIBLE was not his last studio album then what was?--74.233.173.45 (talk) 15:54, 29 April 2011 (UT


HOW DOES A SUPERVISOR geet contacted for a change that would be touched?--74.233.39.26 (talk) 15:26, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Did all of you really cared to check it? "Invincible is the tenth' studio album by American recording artist Michael Jackson, released October 30, 2001, on Epic Records. His last studio album," Do you really want the lead redundant? Tbhotch* ۩ ۞ 19:24, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


WOW WHATS THE BIG DEAL >>>>IT IS HIS LAST ALBUM (STUDIO) DID HE MAKE ANOTHER?--169.139.19.114 (talk) 14:07, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I do not know, perhaps it IS REDUNTANT. ۞ Tbhotch™ & (ↄ), Problems with my English? 03:58, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


perhaps the entire intro needs to be changed--74.233.241.142 (talk) 15:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


we could start by the type of music it has--74.233.64.247 (talk) 16:14, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


can we vote on the intro--65.8.188.148 (talk) 10:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


THIS INTRO NEEDS CHANGE!!!!--169.139.19.114 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)


THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH INTRO NEEDS ALOT OF CHANGE, I WONDER IF Tbhotch has an opinion--169.139.19.114 (talk) 13:52, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


terrible editting --74.233.39.12 (talk) 16:07, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

WE NEED TO START FRESH WITH THIS ARTICLE --169.139.19.114 (talk) 14:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


we should fix this intro — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.191.206 (talk) 10:03, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


WOW THIS IS NOT GOOD --74.233.241.145 (talk) 15:39, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

isnt this actually the 6th album with sony records???????--74.233.39.146 (talk) 17:03, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


intro??--65.8.190.86 (talk) 15:52, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


????.....why are edits reverted--74.233.64.224 (talk) 15:13, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


still the same??????????????--74.233.241.236 (talk) 16:19, 25 November 2011 (UTC)


why did someone change the edit again, if it is correct?--65.8.187.59 (talk) 16:12, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


happy new year,,,,,,,,,,,,,i wish they would keep my edits,,,,,,,,,,, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.233.173.61 (talk) 16:00, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


perhaps we can compromise--65.8.187.221 (talk) 20:41, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


is this the last album,,,,,,,,,,,,,?--74.233.64.26 (talk) 16:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


why do they keep changing the edit????????????--74.233.39.203 (talk) 16:19, 17 February 2012 (UTC) we need a change in this article --65.8.191.88 (talk) 16:19, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Even though it's a good article? Dan56 (talk) 17:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


they change a grammatically correct article again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?--65.8.188.83 (talk) 15:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


isnt it the sixth album with epic records,,,,,,,,,,,,,--74.233.39.142 (talk) 15:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


why does my edit get changed--65.8.190.23 (talk) 15:41, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


this was the 6 epic studio album,,,,,,,,,,,,,--65.8.187.237 (talk) 21:41, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

HOW IS THIS THE 10TH STUDIO ALBUM??????...--65.8.189.25 (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

how many albums did he have with epic, done as studio albums...........--65.8.187.145 (talk) 16:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


they changed it again???,,--65.8.188.175 (talk) 10:30, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

why is there someone changing my edits??,,,,,,--65.8.188.232 (talk) 10:46, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Since 2011 nobody has replied to you (are you chatting with yourself?), can you stop spamming this talk page with your questions and repetitive characters?????? It is disruptive. Understand that the lead won't change regardless how much you insist to change it. Tbhotch.™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 00:38, 7 September 2013 (UTC)


can we just put final album..?..--65.8.188.232 (talk) 10:59, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Do you understand English? The article already says so "Invincible is the ... final ... album by ... Michael Jackson." Now I remember the reason I stopped answering your questions, you are just here to troll this talk page. If you persist to ask the same questions, I'm going to request this talk page to be protected. © Tbhotch™ (en-2.5). 22:55, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

first sentence

so, basically since there are no more studio albums, I think its important the reader understands this fact to begin with (therefore its the first thing the article states)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:48, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

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Album Rating

Hello... Can you please don't change the album ratings? I'm saving it from vandalism. Thanks. IWillEditThisAlbumForEver (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

You'll need to cite a Reliable Source if you want your changes to stay. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 03:18, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


I didn't vandalize anything... I have just edited the wrong information ... people must see the truth... Block me and I'll do a Million accounts... Good luck :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by IWillEditThisAlbumForEver (talk • contribs) 03:22, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

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'Invincible is the final studio album' and 'his 10th...released before his death in 2009'

This wording is very ugly and I tried to change it before. Why can't it be "Invincible is the tenth and final studio album" and "his final...released before his death in 2009"? I'm pretty positive that fits better with Wikipedia's usual structure, but whenever I (and I believe someone else too) tries to change it, it gets reverted. Why is that? --TheSuperSpinD (talk) 16:46, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

TheSuperSpinD i also have the same opinion of urs.The lead should be Invincible is the tenth and final studio album of American singer Michael Jackson.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 16:54, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

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Atleast 10 million units

Block evasion by Special:Contributions/92.10.210.184.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

There's many sources citing that the album has sold atleast 10 million units, 6 million is false (only sources from the early 2000s cite this) 89.241.108.216 (talk) 19:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

6 million is not false. By 2002, the album shipped only 5.4 million copies worldwide, according to Sony Music link, by that time it was out of the charts, so many copies had to be returned to the label. There's no evidence this album sold 4 million copies more through those years, it only returned to charts when Jackson died, but its sales and peak positions were to low to conclude that (almost twice of what it had shipped). Even in USA, the sales increase between 150,000 and 200,000, and sold around 2,4 million copies to date. It also performed poorly in streamings, it has less than 100,000,000 in spotify, which meand much less than 100,000 copies worldwide. It's the same case of Thriller, there's an amount of sources saying it sold 100 million copies (or even 170 million copies), but it's a fake number created by Jackson fans, and published here in Wikipedia, and passed on by the all the media.--88marcus (talk) 21:43, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
See the performance of Christina Aguilera's album Stripped around the world, its sales and charts. You can see clearly that this album sold 10kk copies, not the same case as Invincible.--88marcus (talk) 22:29, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

final album

I believe the article should begin with 'final studio album' this would give the reader the vital information they would need about this album..IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Right now, it says "Invincible is the tenth and final studio album by American singer Michael Jackson,", so that information is already in the sentence. Popcornfud (talk) 13:43, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
IMO it should say "Invincible is the final studio album by American singer Michael Jackson," b/c this is the fact we want to convey to our readers(you can put tenth later on in the second sentence)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:08, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
We want to convey the numbering as much as we want to convey whether it's the final album. It's standard practice for the lead sentence for albums to mention this, as it immediately establishes chronology for the reader. You haven't really explained why you're so set on removing it. Popcornfud (talk) 20:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
please indicate where[1].... ' standard practice for the lead sentence ...numbering.?, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
See every Michael Jackson album article, for example, or indeed more or less any album article on Wikipedia. Popcornfud (talk) 23:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
the question is ...where in the text[2] or perhaps youve another link which so indicates said rule?, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 01:07, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
I didn’t say it was a rule. I said it was standard practice, ie something that is widely done, and with good reason. You still haven’t explained why we we should do differently on this article or others. Popcornfud (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
  • due to the time of year(Holiday season) Im pressed for time, and therefore cant immediately and appropriately address this issue, therefore Ill have to pause this for "a few days" at which time Ill resume the discussion(Ive placed this one a reminder note for myself), thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Credits vs. Personnel

@122.52.37.129: @Tbhotch:: Figure out your dispute here. As it stands, recent changes is clogged and both of you are FAR past WP:3RR. ThadeusOfNazerethTalk to Me! 02:15, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

For the record. "122" was an open proxy operated by a banned editor known as Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Projects (until this edit I found the original name). I'm sorry for the inconveniences that that might have caused. (CC) Tbhotch™ 02:37, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

propose

I propose that those artist that are deceased have their respective last studio album/article indicate... "Album title" was the final studio album for ....in the initial sentence, (those would be for all artist final work/album release Elvis, John Lennon,this article and so on), thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:55, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Fix this godforsaken page

Listing songs that weren't on the album, adding a B-Side randomly to the tracklisting. Fix this and work on monitoring the changes made. YourBestFriendShane (talk) 06:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

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