Talk:Islamic State of Iraq

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adding Former Country Infobox[edit]

Islamic State of Iraq
دولة العراق الإسلامية
2006–2013
Rayat al-`Uqab, the "Eagle Banner"; also called the black flag of jihad
ISI claimed Sunni-Arab significant presence areas.
ISI claimed Sunni-Arab significant presence areas.
StatusUnrecognized state
CapitalBaqubah
Official languagesArabic
Other languagesArabic
Religion
Sunni Islam
GovernmentIslamic state
Emir 
• 2006-2010
Abu Omar al-Baghdadi
• 2006-2010
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
Establishment
History 
• Established
13 October, 2006
• Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant declared
8 April, 2013
• Summer (DST)
UTC+3 (Arabia Standard Time)
Driving sideright
Preceded by		 Succeeded by
Iraq
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
Iraq

I belive an infobox would be usfule like the case in Islamic Courts Union
it claimed to be a state an it controled a number of cities between 2006-2007. here is my version of the infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 3bdulelah (talk • contribs) 12:14, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]


i agree with you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anas Dler (talk • contribs) 05:45, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. There are no reliable sources that suggest ISI was an actual state, just like there are no sources that support the same organization now known as ISIL is a state today. Removing it again now, and anyone that reinserts will be reported for POV pushing supporting terrorists. Legacypac (talk) 05:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are already two other infoboxes in the article. It's not at all clear that adding a third improves the article. In my judgment it simply adds unnecessary clutter. EastTN (talk) 20:29, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree and will remove this one. Kahastok talk 21:02, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
See new section: Talk:Islamic State of Iraq#(Not an) 'unrecognized state'. --Corriebertus (talk) 14:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Description in lead[edit]

News sources predominantly describe an Islamist group/organisation. GregKaye ✍♪ 18:09, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(Not an) 'unrecognized state'[edit]

  • Firstly: Wikipedia wants to be an encyclopedia, and the first requirement of an encyclopedia is to be consistent, clear, and not-contradicting-itself. If ISI is an (unrecognized) state, that should be clearly mentioned in the lead section of the article, which is not the case. In stead, some editors try to smuggle that assertion in, by using an ‘infobox’ on the sideline of the article but that makes the article confusing, inconsistent and therefore unclear.
    Perhaps an infobox may be used to convey minor details that aren’t mentioned in the text elsewhere, but it may NOT be used to smuggle in vital, essential ‘information’ into the article, because that makes the article inconsistent—even degrades the ‘encyclopedia article’ in just a ‘page’ with rather chaotic quasi-information. An inconsistent encyclopedia is no encyclopedia: being consistent and clear is indispensable, basic, a conditio sine qua non for any encyclopedia.
    An editor therefore who, after reading this warning, still deliberately distorts a consistent Wiki-article into inconsistency (like contradiction, chaos, vagueness), by abuse of an infobox must be designated as an enemy of Wikipedia, and probably banned from working any longer on Wikipedia.
  • Secondly: ‘unrecognized state’ is a linguistic construction consisting of a noun: ”state”, and an adjective: “unrecognized”; linked together. This means, that an entity must be both to be called ‘unrecognized state’: it must be a ‘state’, and also ‘unrecognized’ as such. (Just like a “black cat” must be both ‘black’ and ‘cat’ otherwise it can’t be a ‘black cat’. Just being ‘black’ is not enough.)
    Now, let’s see: was ISI a state? While List of historical unrecognized states refers to ‘geopolitics’ I assume that the word ‘state’ is being meant as in State (polity): “organized community under one government” (Oxford Dictionary). Sorry, ISI does not look to me like that. If anyone asserts ISI to have been such a “state”, I’d like to see convincing sources saying so.
    Editor 205etc on 21 January said: ‘yes, they were a state, because in 2006-2008 they controlled some Sunni areas’. All I can find in that respect is that in autumn 2006 they would have ‘taken over’ Baqubah (see FORCE 5-20 (…..) (under section ‘A Commander’s Perspective’) ). Perhaps they also ‘controlled’ that town (what is ‘control’?) but even then: is one city a ‘state’? And: how do we know there was an “organized community under one government” in that one town or state? As I said: I’d like to see a convincing source.
    Ofcourse, ISI calls itself: ‘state’. But that is a linguistical trick to let us believe that, or at least doubt whether, they are a ‘state’. Other words for such tricking-with-language are: rhetorics, or propaganda.
  • I have specifically brought this posting to the attention of mr/mrs 205.232.106.254. --Corriebertus (talk) 14:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Corriebertus as far as I could find, there is not a single reliable source which recognised ISI to be a state or even an unrecognised state. I gather the issues you have raised have now been solved since the article has a war faction infobox. Mbcap (talk) 16:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Somalialand is a classic unrecognized state for it is a state with no 3rd party government recognition. ISI/ISIL is a terrorist group that pretends to have a state. Occupation or temporary control of somewhere does not a state make, any more than bank robbers taking over a bank for a time turns them into bankers. Legacypac (talk) 19:00, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Organized/updated the article[edit]

I’ve today organized article Islamic State of Iraq. The vast majority of the information from the old version is still present in the article, but due to my (re)organizing—and sometimes my correcting of presumed ‘information’ taken from a certain reference source—‘old’ information may not always be easily retraceable in the ‘new’, organized version of the article. Therefore, I’ve made this list, standing below, giving for most old reference source numbers the new number of that same ref source in the new version.
I’ve re-read almost all ref sources, which quite often resulted in an improved, or corrected, summary of it in the article. Not every ‘old’ ref source and their (supposed) information has (completely) returned in the new, organized version of the article: apart from the cases where I simply have corrected their information’s summary—which will be have to be self-evident—the other exceptions are explained and accounted for in subjoined list. If you disagree with some information being discarded as irrelevant by me, please put it back into the now organized article. --Corriebertus (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Old ref number New ref number, or reason why the ‘old’ ref and its info is replaced to another Wiki-article, or its information now conveyed with another ref or Wikilink, or left out, etc.
1 1
2 irrelevant: personal opinion of an editor
3 2
4 15 ; (part of the info from that ref source is also placed in article Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn ('al-Qaeda in Iraq') ref. 29 (section ‘Strength AQI in 2006’))
5 not relevant for the purpose it was used for in this article
6 dead link
7 16 ; (part of its info is also placed in article Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn ref. 30 (section ‘Strength AQI in 2006’))
8 (Adnkronos) irrelevant because the ref is not really dated
9 17
10 18
11 41
12 42
13 43
14 68
15 14 ; (Ware, Michael) (part of its info is also placed in article Tanzim… ref. 13 (section ‘2005’))
16 48
17 49
18 12
19 37
20 (Abdul-Ahad) (replaced to article Tanzim… ref. 26 (section ‘Conflicts between AQI and...’))
21 (Caroll) (replaced to article Tanzim… ref. 25 (section ‘Conflicts between AQI and...’))
22 36
23 (Klein, Joe) (replaced to article Tanzim… ref. 28 (section ‘Conflicts between AQI and...’))
24 20 ; (Beaumont) (part of its info is also placed in article Tanzim… ref. 27 (section ‘Conflicts between AQI and...’))
25 32
26 31
27 34
28 35
29 4
30 irrelevant incorrect rumours about someone being killed
31 irrelevant, idem
32 irrelevant speech of Al Masri
33 incorrectly summarized, (therefore) irrelevant really
34 incorrectly summarized, (therefore) irrelevant really
35 21
36 38
37 40
38 33
39 44
40 irrelevant vagueness
41 irrelevant vagueness
42 51
43 53
44 50
45 57
46 8
47 63
48 64
49 65
50 66
51 67
52 7
53 11
54 59 ; (NYTimes,10Aug2014) (part of the info from that ref source is also placed, 1 Feb 2015, in article Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, section ’Background’, ref 17)
55 60
56 69
57 72 ; (‘Al Qaeda in Iraq resurgent’) (part of the info from that ref source is also placed, 30 Jan 2015, in article Timeline of events related to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, ‘2013 events’, ref 9)
58 73 ; (‘Al Qaeda..freed 500..’) (part of the info from that ref source is also placed, 30 Jan 2015, in article 2013 in Iraq, ref. 1)
59 71
60 74
61 75
62 9
63 its info now conveyed with present ref 7 (new section 2.3)
64 irrelevant, belongs in article Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
65 its info now conveyed with present ref 7 (new section 2.3)
66 10
67 29
68 (Uppsala) irrelevant, and that mentioned info is not in that ref source
69 irrelevant incorrect rumour of someone being captured
70 irrelevant, idem
71 irrelevant, idem
72 irrelevant, idem
73 Operation Arrowhead Ripper is part of Battle of Baqubah which is now presented/summarized in new section 3.8 (‘2007, U.S. fighting AQI’)
74 26
75 dead
76 27
77 28
78 dead
79 30
80 47
81 56
82 its info now conveyed with new ref nr. 58 (BBC, 10 Dec 2009)
83 61
84 its info now conveyed with new ref 62 (Al-Jazeera, 20 Aug 2010)
85 dead
86 its info now conveyed with Wikilink to article 2010 Baghdad church massacre in new section 4.2 (‘ISI attacks 2010’)
87 76
88 77
89 70
90 13
91 78
92 79

--Corriebertus (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

B or C class[edit]

I was asked by User:Corriebertus whether this article is B or C class. Looking at it again, I have concerns about comprehensiveness of this article (see WP:ASSESS, "The article reasonably covers the topic"). What is missing? An article about a state unit should cover more than what we have here. This article focuses on two topics: structure and history. Where is a section on ISI economy? Culture? Those are two big gaps that appear in my scan of this article. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:40, 19 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reacting. My question actually was: how are decisions reached to assess an article as C class? I assume now, that it was a personal assessment of Piotrus. Nevertheless -- Piotrus observes here, that we are missing sections on economy and on culture of the "state unit" ISI. But, sorry: we don't define ISI as state unit, we define it as a "group", as you can read in the article. Piotrus would perhaps like to see sections on economy or culture of the group ISI, but why then would he presume that such things even exist/existed? 'Economy' can perhaps be understood as to be presented in section 2.4 'Funding and financing', 'culture' perhaps under section 2.2 'Goals'. We've just been trying to present here all the information about ISI that we could find, and apparently there was not much more to find (yet) about the group's (presumed) 'culture' and 'economy'. --Corriebertus (talk) 07:24, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously??[edit]

"...it transformed itself into Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" THIS is why that article needs a name change; so history can't be distorted. Its original name was Islamic State In Syria, and it started in Syria. To say the Islamic State came from Iraq is very, very wrong. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 09:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have references that support this claim? Gazkthul (talk) 05:05, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Islamic State of Iraq. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 15:27, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Islamic State of Iraq. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 03:47, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Islamic State of Iraq. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Islamic State of Iraq[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Islamic State of Iraq's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Dawn20041018":

  • From Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn: "Zarqawi pledges allegiance to Osama". Dawn. Agence France-Presse. 18 October 2004. Archived from the original on 29 December 2007. Retrieved 13 July 2007.
  • From Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant: "Zarqawi pledges allegiance to Osama". Dawn. Agence France-Presse. 18 October 2004. Archived from the original on 29 December 2007. Retrieved 13 July 2007.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 23:27, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Islamic State of Iraq. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:47, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Odd Flag[edit]

I checked the article that was the attached source for the flag but it never mentioned ISI or the weird gray on the flag? :3 (talk) 00:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Islamic_State_of_Iraq&oldid=1213269748"