Talk:Istanbul Football League

1914-1915 season

Fenerbahce is the champion of the 1914-1915 season. Source: http://www.turkfutbolu.net/tumligler/istanbul14-15.html

Redman19 (talk) 17:00, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

But thats a FB Fan page. According to that page the game on 11 February 1916 was a finl game. But again according to the page the game on 11 February 1916 was the game of the 15/16 season. http://www.turkfutbolu.net/tumligler/cuma15-16.html And its a lil bit weired to play a final game 6 months after the season ended. Sercangs (talk) 17:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

The match was postponed to that date, thats the reason it was played then. Here another source stating Fenerbahce as the champions http://www.uludagsozluk.com/k/istanbul-ligi/ Show me a source that states that Galatasaray was crowned champions for the 1914-1915 season.

Redman19 (talk) 20:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

http://forfubas.tripod.com/futbol/ariligi.htm Here I got another source for you why the final game was played in 1916, as you see Fenerbahce won the match and became champions of the 1914-1915 season.

Redman19 (talk) 20:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Come on. This isn't a off. page. So please explain to me why they match on 11 February 1916 was a final match and the match of the 15-16 season. Sercangs (talk) 13:52, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Come with a source that shows Galatasaray as champions of the 1914-1915 season then you can revert it, come up with a source first. Redman19 (talk) 15:38, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

In 1914-1915 season, there were two leagues. One of them was the premier league called Istanbul Football Association League and the other was the second league called Istanbul Union League. When the premier league started, Fenerbahce did not want to enter the premier league. So, the league was started without Fenerbahce. After that, Fenerbahce would like to join the league. However the commitee did not allow this, because the league was already started. So that, Fenerbahce joined the second league that there were weak teams inside it. Galatasaray won the championship of Istanbul Football League and became the champion of Istanbul. Fenerbahce won the championship of Istanbul Union League.(unbeaten! Because Fenerbahce is much more stronger). After the season completed, in 1915-1916 the commitee of the football association decided to bring these leagues together in one piece. And the new league were called Istanbul Friday League. There wasn't a final game between two teams. Because one of them was in first league an the other was in second league. Just take a look at the scores of the second league!

Redman, you mentioned about the final game. But the game was not the final game, because it did not happen. There was a 1915-1916 Friday Game match between Galatasaray-Fenerbahce and Fenerbahce won this game and it gave Fenerbahce 2 points! How could be the game gave 2 points to Fenerbahce for 1915-16 season and made a champion of 1914-1915 season at the same time??? This is ridiculous, and you know it. Please check your sources. Unreliable sources are not counted in wikipedia and this is not a fan area! So do not revert it again! Thank you.Sultaniman (talk) 06:22, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Come up with a source first, I gave you guys 3 sources, you gave me 0.

Redman19 (talk) 09:55, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

The source is included in the article! Do not delete and revert again! Sultaniman (talk) 11:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

All your sources are FB sources. My source is Milliyet Newspaper archive. 08.09.1965: FB won the "Istanbul amateur League" in 1912, 1914, 1921, 1923... http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3402/millyiet2.png

26.06.1963 GS has won the "Istanbul amateur league" 12 times. http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4259/millyiet.png Sercangs (talk) 14:19, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Well here I got another source stating Fenerbahce as champions, this aint a FB source so look closely. http://arsiv.ntvmsnbc.com/news/368163.asp, then my question, who is the champion of 1914-1915? If both teams were first in their groups, who was champion? Why are you guys claiming that Galatasaray won it?? Where is the source claiming that Galatasaray won it, I spoke a lot of people about this and most of them were Galatasaray supporters reading their clubs history, they all said that Fenerbahce were the winners. Redman19 (talk) 17:16, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

By the way you gave me a Milliyet source stating the name Haluk San who is Haluk San? Spor tarihi araştırmacısı ve Galatasaray kulüp divan üyesi rahmetli Haluk şan. Your source is written by a Galatasarayli writer, im reverting it back. Redman19 (talk) 18:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

No, SercanGS' s source is Milliyet Newspaper. It' s the oldest archive! I warned you twice! It' s not a fan page, or fan area. This is wikipedia. Your question is simple. And the answer is simple too. When the team wins Super League then the team is called champion. Super League champion does not play against Bank Asya 1. League Champion to become a turkish champion! In 1914-1915 season Galatasaray won the "super league" and Fenerbahce won the "Bank Asya League". So why could the teams play again and determine who the champion was??? I mentioned the chronogical order and historic events above.

And your source is still unreliable! http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/283277.jpg This is the man you trust!

In addition, This is not Haluk Şan! This is Haluk San! Osman Haluk San! http://www.kenthaber.com/marmara/istanbul/Kimdir/iz-birakan/osman-haluk-san "Gazeteci, hekim. istanbul’da doğdu. Fenerbahçe Spor Kulübü ilk üyelerinden Ali şevki Bey’in oğludur. Liseyi bitirdiği 1931 yılında Talât Mithat Hemşeri’nin çıkardığı Türkspor dergisinde spor yazarlığına başladı. Bu arada yüksek öğrenimine de devam etti. 1935’te İstanbul Üniversitesi Yüksek Diş hekimliği Okulu’nu, 1939’da ise Hukuk fakültesi’ni bitirdi.Bir taraftan gazeteciliğe devam ederken Sümerbank’a girip çalıştı. Gazetecilik hayatını 1933-1946 arasında Vakit ve haber’de, 1946-1948’de Tasvir ve Son Saat’te, 1948-1954’te Akşam’da, 1954-1964 yıllarında Cumhuriyet’te daha sonra da Milliyet Gazetesinde sürdürdü. Ayrıca 1953-1954’de Türkiye Spor gündelik gazetesinde, 1931-1934’de Türkspor, 1934-1936’da Top dergisinde, 1936-1952’de Kırmızı-Beyaz dergisinde, sekreter ve yazı işleri müdürü olarak görev aldı. Aylık Spor Ansiklopedisi, Türkiye Futbol tarihi ve Futbol Ansiklopedisi adında yayınlanmış kitabı bulunmaktadır."

Sultaniman (talk) 04:46, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Fair one, but still my question stands, why the is the 1914-1915 season won by Galatasaray if there was no final match? How did Galatasaray win it? I still didnt see a source stating that Galatasaray won that season. Second, I gave you guys a lot of sources, 2 of them aint FB sources and still you guys are claiming that my sources are not correct. There are many sources stating on the net that Fenerbahce won the cup that year, I still wonder why in your point view there was no final match, if there was no final match who won the 1914-1915 season? You are claiming that Galatasaray won it but WHY? Both teams finished first in their groups, it would be natural to play a match between the two teams to decide the winner, even when its played as a Friday league match in the upcomming season, the winner of that match would get 3 points and would be pointed as the winner of the 1914-1915 season, it makes sense to me, because there were arguments in the 1914-1915 season thats why they split up. If you think you got the right answers show me a clear source please. Redman19 (talk) 08:28, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

two groups??? There were not two groups. There were two different leagues. One of them was the first that means premier like super league, bundesliga or premiere league. And the other was the second league like bank asya league or championship league. So that the premiere league champion was the turkish champion, that' s all. Why Fenerbahce did not want to join the first league? Because they claimed that the commitee of this league was not fair. However, that was another thing. It was a controversial issue between the commitee and Fenerbahce. What happened in the past did not change the truths. Firstly, you have to learn why Fenerbahce did not want to join the premier league and when the league was started, why Fenerbahce would like to join the league. This must be the answer for you. Secondly, Alper Duruk is a Fenerbahce fan so is Cem Ertuğrul. So these sources are unreliable. Besiktas JK was also in the second league called Friday League sometime in the past. But nobody recognizes their success. Do you know why Fenerbahce won all their matches easily in that league??? Because Fenerbahce was the super league team.Sultaniman (talk) 10:46, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

There are more sources on the net that state Fenerbahce as champions, and these sources are not from Fenerbahce fans, I wonder what your source is? Galatasaray Museum and magazine, yeah right ok, not unreliable.

I did some research and found this: Cuma Ligi'nin 1913 - 1914 sezonundaki ilk organizasyonunda Sanayi Futbol şampiyon oldu. 1914 - 1915 sezonunda Pazar ve Cuma Ligi takımları arasında anlaşmazlık çıktı. Pazar Ligi'nin (İstanbul Futbol Birliği) şampiyonu Galatasaray'dı. Cuma Ligi'ni de (İstanbul Şampiyonluğu Ligi) Fenerbahçe şampiyon olarak tamamladı.

Where does it say that this league that Fenerbahce has won was a second league? I just cannot find this anywhere, you are the only one claiming this. 188.202.146.57 (talk) 13:46, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Do you know why Friday League was created? Because there were many teams in 1913 and some of them were strong and some not. The directors of the first league did not allow weak teams to join the organization. So weak teams created a new organization and league called Friday League in common. The First league teams played their matches on Sundays. However, the second league teams played their matches on Fridays. Fenerbahce did not want to join the first league in the beginning of the season because of the controversial issues with the board. But after the league started, they changed their decision and they would like to join. However, The commitee did not allow this, because the league were already started. So Fenerbahce joined the other league, called Friday League or İstanbul Şampiyonluğu Ligi in Turkish. When the season completed, Fenerbahce claimed that they were the Istanbul champion. But none of teams of the Istanbul Futbol Birliği accepted that claim. Galatasaray won the Sunday League and cup, which was still in Galatasaray Museum. In 1916 the board of directors of Sunday League decided to bring these leagues together. When the new league started in 1916, Fenerbahce won the game against Galatasaray and claimed that it was the final match for 1915 season. Galatasaray never accepted the claim and none of independent sources accepted this claim either. You can check the newspaper archives like Milliyet.(this is a reference so check the article sources too) Unfortunately, Rüştü Dağlaroğlu, Fenerbahce historian, wrote a Fenerbahce book and claimed that Fenerbahce was the champion of 1915 with no evidence. Only Fenerbahce fans believe that it' s true. Rüştü Dağlaroğlu is an unreliable source unfortunately. He never mentioned about "half cup" or something like that, he only wrote his arguments, not truths or true history. He hid Fenerbahce' s faults. Sultaniman (talk) 16:26, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Man come on you believe this shit yourself? Your Milliyet source is not a good source, where does it say that Galatasaray won the 1914-1915 season? And also you claimed that the Cuma Ligi was a second league, I cant find that info anywhere. 195.240.250.105 (talk) 17:20, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Nobody recognizes Besiktas JK's succes because there was no succes, Besiktas never won the Cuma Ligi. If the Cuma Ligi is a second league its strange that a big team like Besiktas never won it, this isnt a second league thats a lie. Second I still cannot find any source on the internet stating that your story is true. I spoke a lot of people and they all told me something else, even the Galatasaray fans. Redman19 (talk) 18:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I suggest we just let him have his way, Im going to research these things so dont worry. 195.240.250.105 (talk) 20:45, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

About Osman Haluk San or just Haluk San: http://www.eksisozluk.com/show.asp?t=osman%20haluk%20san This man was only the son of a Fenerbahce member, just read this source and you will see that this man has further no connections with Fenerbahce, he was more connected with Galatasaray, just read the source, he was only the son of a Fenerbahce member, he has no further connections with Fenerbahce. 195.240.250.105 (talk) 13:25, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Good one, I just found another source stating Fenerbahce won the 1914-1915 season, its written by Selahattin Duman, I will cut out the part and put it here because its too long. Redman19 (talk) 14:39, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

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Istanbul Football League,Istanbul Sunday League and Istanbul Friday League are three different competitions. Istanbul Football League started in 1924.The league played between 1924-1960 and most succesful club is Besiktas jk with 13 titles.Fenerbahce sk is second with 11 titles.Galatasaray sk is third with 9 titles.Keep with the real history folks.Dont mix the competitions.You can see that on the turkish page.Istanbul League(sunday and friday competitions)is between 1904-1915. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.242.66.132 (talk) 18:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

1914-1915

Its written in Turkish but I think it pretty much clears up this heated discussion, the only sources being given are Galatasaray magazine and Museum.
https://www.wikiwand.com/tr/Tart%C4%B1%C5%9Fma:%C4%B0stanbul_Futbol_Ligi KirmiziAdam (talk) 11:17, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Two sources who state otherwise.
http://www.angelfire.com/d20/tfab/konu/klistanbul.html
http://forfubas.tripod.com/futbol/ariligi.htm KirmiziAdam (talk) 11:32, 18 January 2020 (UTC)