Talk:Jack Lang (French politician)

sexual abuse of morroco boys and links to Jeffery Epstein, supports eliminating age of consent and legalizing rape

Former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn's ally Jack Lang, has been accused of an orgy with little boys in Morocco. He is a friend of Jeffery Epstein publicly supported the 1977 movement against an age of consent in French and the decriminalization of rape in France.

The sourcing for the orgy accusation seems weak to me. The Indian Express article is citing the Daily Mail, which isn't encouraging. I looked around for news about these accusations and found articles at BBC, The Guardian, The Wall Street Journal, and The Independent. None of them mention Lang. They all explicitly state that the accuser, Luc Ferry, didn't give any specific name. Also, all the articles I could find about this incident are from 2011. Between the lack of coverage over time, and the fact that the best sources I found don't actually name Lang, I don't think it's appropriate for inclusion. Squeakachu (talk) 07:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

References

Untitled

Why is he called Jack Lang? (and not 'Jacques'?) Does he have anglo saxon origins?

• No he has no anglo saxon origin. I guess that English sounding first names were popular in France at the beginning of WWII.Hektor 15:25, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Let us hope that Jack Lang is appointed leader of the French Socialist party and replaces Sarkozy as President. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.99.62.114 (talk) 10:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Controversies concerning sexuality

• I've deleted this section 3 June 2011 because 1 it's been deleted in the French BLP from which I was essentially translating and 2 because presently, in the light of the Luc Ferry remarks concerning what appear merely to be old rumours, it's plainly contentious per WP:BLP FightingMac (talk) 14:17, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

The paragraphy on 'Controversies concerning sexuality' needs better sources than an article from 'The Irish Catholic' (whose point of view is not what you would call neutral) and the website of an obscure association (with alleged links to French extreme-right). References from established newspapers would be better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.126.123.135 (talk) 06:39, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The paragraph was just a translation of an established section in the French article (but predictably that's been deleted at the time of writing following the Luc Ferry remarks i.e. it was greatly expanded and then blanked altogether, usual Wikipedia thing). That was the best, I think the only, English language reference I could find and I thought it interesting and notable enought to cite. I do understand the irony :-) but they're not all kiddy fiddlers, come on. By all means replace if you can find a better source, but I do ask you to reflect whether it's genuinely better. I thought it a good third party source. FightingMac (talk) 13:36, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Only website in the references is Association Internationale des Victimes de l'Inceste which is scarcely obscure (it successfully campaigned to reintroduce laws against incest, scrapped after the Revolution) and doesn't have extreme right-wing leanings that I know of (and et alors? BTW if it does, this is France). I'll look to see if I can provide a translation of the French AIVI site to flesh out the English wiki entry. But all these remarks have reliable RS French sources. Of course providing English ones is harder. FightingMac (talk) 03:38, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Curiously there are no articles in the French Wiki. There was a BLP for an 'Isabelle Aubry' the founder, but apparently for another person and it was deleted because it was a copy of a self-advertising website. I'll look for another source for the 'Gai Pied' remark. FightingMac (talk) 03:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi! I don't understand this article about Jack Lang. In France, he's not known for the "controversies concerning sexuality", but for being a Minister of culture. One of the two greatet Ministers of Culture in France (the other is André Malraux).

Here, you (=people in a general way) characterize him as s.o. working for President Nicolas Sarkozy, and for the 'Controversies concerning sexuality'. And... How do you know he's jew? --Sorcierbob (talk) 12:49, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Sorcierbob. I'll look for the stuff about him being Jewish. WP:BLP policy is that religious or ethnic affinities shouldn't be included, unless the subject has publicly identified with them and it's notable for the article. Regarding 'controversies concerning sexuality' he indeed is notable for that. I merely translated the relevant section in his French BLP (currently deleted as per comment above, but I expect it will be restored after the Luc Ferry business blows over) FightingMac (talk) 13:36, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I've deleted the 'Jewish ancestry' bit because the source isn't cited, no identification, not notable. Thank you. FightingMac (talk) 13:43, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

@ IP 187.114.165.182 (Salvador, Brazil)

I deleted your 'raised as a Jew' because it's not in the source you cite and neither is that source a reliable source. In general WP:BLP has two tests for citing ethnicity and religious affiliation 1 the subject must have publicly identified with the ethnicity or affiliation 2 it's notable for the subject. Neither appears to be true for Jack Lang on internet RS at any rate. I ask you to respect community policy and not to include content about his alleged Jewishness unless you have multiple RS you can cite. I am copying this to his talk page with your source and addressing your IP. Thank you. FightingMac (talk) 13:57, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I find it disturbing that there are interests that want personal information concerning religion and sexual orientation suppressed. This may not be the work of the subjects of the articles or their supporters – there are many in France who believe that everyone has a strong right to “privacy”. I noted that on the Dominique Strauss Kahn Wiki page in French, at the time of the outbreak of the scandal in May 2011, the article about him in English and other languages contained more information about his religious and sexual ways than that in French. Now I see that even the article in English for Jack Lang is getting hit. As regards whether mention should or should not be made of his family origins, there is a more complete and erudite discussion on the same topic on the Dominique Strauss Kahn Wikipedia pages. It’ll be just a question of time before more information is made available here on Jack Lang. cckkab (talk) 12:42, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Cckkab. Thanks for your input. No 'interests' here, honest, but we do have to adhere to a common policy. Jimmy Wales has said that for contentious issues, such as would appear to be the case here, it should be trivial to provide multiple reliable sources if the claim is true. I invite you to do that, lets say 5 RS as a ballpark figure. Find those and I shan't delete, promise. Note that IP 187.114.165.182 from Salvador in Brazil's source didn't say anything of the sort - check it out. Probably one of those 'he's a Jew, so let's call him a Jew' types.

It's different with 'categorisation' issues. There we have to have the two tests I mention above.

Regarding DSK the debate went on for ever. Adjectival bore. No idea what the consensus was. I wouldn't exactly have called the discussion 'erudite'. As for 'complicated' that wasn't my impression either. Just quite fantastically tedious.

In what way are you 'disturbed'? Just interested. FightingMac (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I am "disturbed" by the willingness of some to want to occult information that is, for me, of obvious value and interest. Cultural/religious background falls into that category and is easily verifiable and well sources. As for facts re sexual views (if not crimes), there is quite some information in these articles and TV interviews (from a brief search - there is a lot more, so widespread collaboration from varied sources, and I would think highly relevant to the Wikipedia article. Eg http://www.diatala.org/article-jack-lang-la-sexualite-puerile-est-encore-un-continent-interdit-reseau-pedophile-coral-75479505.html and http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/05/31/french-socialists-sweetness-and-light-just-subversive/ and http://www.fdesouche.com/214703-un-ancien-ministre-pedophile-selon-luc-ferry/comment-page-17 and http://aquelquespasdela.wordpress.com/2011/06/01/excusez-moi-si-je-deborde/ and so on and so on cckkab (talk) 13:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, fair enough. I didn't mean to imply that the interest was unfounded. But you have to concede that the sources you cite aren't RS in Wikipedia policy and that's what matters here. Interesting though, thanks - appreciated. FightingMac (talk) 14:39, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

@Malick78 Re: Controversies concerning sexuality

Hi Malick78

I see you've restored the section 'Contoversies concerning sexuality' I had translated from French section and which I subsequently blanked.

I shan't revert you but I want to make it clear that I don't support you in restoring it. It was not just that the corresponding section had been blanked in the French article but also because Luc Ferry's recent remarks had been, unwarrantedly it seems, interpreted as referring to Lang. In those circumstances it seemed right to me to delete the section and indeed I don't support its restoration.

Thank you. FightingMac (talk) 22:30, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I see that someone not English, or at any rate with a very imperfect grasp of English, has added some remarks. I would like to blank the entire section as the French have. If I don't see sensible reason why not here a few days on, that's what I shall do.

Thank you. FightingMac (talk) 05:37, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I've now copy-edited the remarks as far as I can construe them and removed the POV template. I will balnk the section a week or so hence unless I see requests not to here. FightingMac (talk) 17:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

"gassed"

I changed to "died". "Killed" would be acceptable if there is evidence, but although there were claims in the post-war period that Ravensbruck had a gas chamber, nowhere is that claimed today. Certainly not in the relevant Wikipedia article. For all camps where gassing is claimed, it did not happen as late as 1945. She probably died in the catastrophic conditions of epidemic and starvation that swept the camps in 1945.Channelwatcher (talk) 18:11, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Jew?

The article says his paternal side was Jewish. I don't know whether this is enough to put him in the category:French Jews or not, since usually only maternal side counts for being a Jew.--Carnby (talk) 14:38, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

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I have applied full protection to this article due to the content dispute occuring over this edit - editors are reminded of the importance of proper dispute resolution. Please now discuss these changes and come to a concensus before continuing. Many thanks ~TNT (she/they • talk) 04:03, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

comment: User:Frank6292010 is engaged in a edit war with me, 1)he has now deleted comments on his talk page twice without responding when I left him messages regarding the matter 2) he has not made any talk here at the talk page where I have posted about the matter several days ago (at the top of this talk page), and gone straight to undoing my edits 3) I even gave him the sources and shown both sources were greenlighted at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources and he has not made a single effort to even look at the content at hand