Talk:Jaffa–Jerusalem railway

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Materials[edit]

—Ynhockey (Talk) 12:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Blanket reverts of edits that vastly improve the article[edit]

This article is problematic. It is supposedly about the historic railway and then veers off into the train of today which is not known as the "Jaffa Jerusalem railway." There is no reason for that Iran comparison to be in the lead (and it was not "Iran" at the time either, but Persia). I don't know what MOS is, but the article is definitely more comprehensible and encyclopedic now. It was a mess. If your interest is in improving articles, I would think carefully before you revert. You have now restored the article to gibberish (J& J - my foot) with many spelling mistakes. Best, Gila--Gilabrand (talk) 03:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Proposed split[edit]

This article is mainly about the historical Jaffa-Jerusalem line, which was shut down in 1948. There is much more than can be written about it. I think the material about the Tel Aviv - Jerusalem train should be moved to a separate, linked article.--Gilabrand (talk) 05:57, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Oppose—it's the exact same railway. You are incorrect that the Jaffa–Jerusalem line was shut down in 1948, in fact it was shut down in 1998. In fact, the line was rebuilt from scratch twice before 1948, but has never been entirely rebuilt since. In the 2000s, it was renovated with many sections rebuilt, but never a complete rebuild. Also, as my map shows, about 80–90% of the current route is the exact same one that was used in 1892. There is another article on the newer partly-built High-speed railway to Jerusalem. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"historic"[edit]

I think you are misunderstanding the term "historic." Historic does not mean something no longer exists, but that it was built long ago. In English, "historic homes," are homes that were built in an earlier era, but are still standing and often in use (think of old mansions or estates in America or England). "Original stations" is not English (and doesn't convey the meaning you think it does).--Gilabrand (talk) 05:53, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for not replying earlier, I didn't notice the comment. Actually 'historic' means 'historically important/notable' (e.g. an historic speech). You are probably talking about the word 'historical', which means something like what you are describing. However, it is a word with many similar meanings, most of which are related to history and past events, so while some readers may understand your meaning, most will not, and it also makes an involuntary association with the past, or something that no longer exists. You are also incorrect in that 'original stations' is 'not English'. It's certainly not Hebrew, and seems as proper (both grammatically and stylistically) as it gets.
Moreover, some of the later stations were also built long ago, and can be called historical, especially Wadi Surar, but also Tel Aviv North and the original Tel Aviv South (Beit Hadar/Yehuda HaLevi). --Ynhockey (Talk) 22:28, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I beg to differ. Historic means exactly what I say it does. If English is not your mother tongue, you may not be fully aware of the nuances. The use of the term "original" stations is most certainly Heblish. As a professional editor and translator, I can tell you that misuse of an English word or appropriating it to mean something else is very common among Hebrew speakers. That doesn't make it right.--Gilabrand (talk) 05:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually Hebrew is not my mother tongue either, and 'original stations' (תחנות מקוריות???) makes sense only in English anyway. I can tell you that misuse of an English word or appropriating it to mean something else is very common among people who do speak English in their everyday lives and don't feel the need to look up words (I remember myself in this situation just after returning to Israel from Canada). Even professionals need to work with a dictionary. --Ynhockey (Talk) 07:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't this part of Palestine Railway?[edit]

Wasn't the Jaffa-Jerusalem line just one part of that larger railway network, itself an extension of the Hejaz railway? Tiamuttalk 03:59, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  1. The short answer is no. The article (J&J) actually talks about this in the 1892–1914 and World War I sections.
  2. It's interesting that you brought up the Palestine Railway article, a new article which is mostly badly-written, and I intend to eventually rewrite and rename it. I have read several books on the railways of Palestine and Israel, and am not aware of any railway line that was called the Palestine Railway. The closest concept to that is Palestine Railways, which was a British railway company responsible for all railways in the British Mandate of Palestine (between 1922 and 1948). The Hebrew Wikipedia has an article about it. The railway that the current English article is referring to is a combination of a British and a Turkish railway, both built in World War I. The Israeli section of it is referred to as the Coastal Railway, an article that is red-linked from here and I intend to write it eventually.
I hope that answered your question. —Ynhockey (Talk) 09:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Follow-up for clarification: You will notice that the only two sources used by the article Palestine Railway do not talk about a "Palestine Railway", but actually about railways in Lebanon and Syria. In modern times, the railway is generally divided by countries: Egypt, Israel and Lebanon. In historiography, it is generally viewed in three separate ones as well: The part built by the British company called Palestine Military Railways (PMR), from Egypt to Rafah/Gaza; the part laid by the Turks (mostly in modern-day Israel); and part of the French-built railway in Lebanon. Many railways were eventually interconnected for obvious reasons, but have nothing to do with each other: J & J, Hejaz, the Hamma-Damascus–Beirut line (French-built), and the British and Turkish-built coastal railways. Therefore, separate articles are needed. —Ynhockey (Talk)

External links modified[edit]

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Covid-19 shutdown and future[edit]

Apparently the line was shut down in the course of the Covid 19 pandemic in Israel but unlike the rest of the railway network, service hasn't been restored as of this writing. This has led to further speculation about the future of the line, especially since there is a plan to electrify the entire network and it is questionable this line will be included. Can we get a section on the future of the line and various plans that were either discussed or published from the time plans for the new Tel Aviv-Jerusalem railway became serious onwards? I have tried finding sources in English, but was not all that successful. Maybe there are good sources in Hebrew and/or Arabic? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:03, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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