Jump to content

Talk:Jaffna kingdom/Archive 2

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1Archive 2

pre History of Jaffna kingdom

Jaffna was part of Rajarata before the collapse of Rajarata. Some people trying to say there was independent kingdom (Sovereignty) Jaffna. But how there can be a kingdom without people ? People came with Magha's army. So due to what it could survive from the power of Rajarata ? --Himesh84 (talk) 19:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Starting point of Jaffna

Magha is not the one who established Jaffna kingdom. Magha is the last king of Rajarata. People accept Magha as king as they couldn't find any royal blood at that time and Magha was Nissanka Malla relative. Also sinhalese power was very weak at that time due to regular providing of strong armies to assist Pandyan to servile from Cholas. Due to this Veera Pandyan a Pandyan prince who get help from Sinhalese and couldn't servive chola powers invaded weak (unstable due to internal conflicts for kingship) Pollonnaruwa. Then Kalinga Magha (Sinha) invaded Rajarata with army of Tamils. There was a battle Magha defeated Veera Pandyan. Magha was accepted as the king. But it wasn't sure whether Magha was controlled by his army chiefs. Armies destroyed Buddhist stupas (may be to find treasures). Also there wasn't way to feed large number of army. Therefore they expelled Sinhalese from north. People go against the king (as they did to Mahasen) and fight against king. Magha had to abandon the Rajarata. This army wasn't big as previous chola armies. Previous occasions Rajarata rulers completely expelled previous chola invaders and those who wished to join king was also allowed ( vellakkara group). But Magha's army had good support from Pandyan (It is not clear why Pandyan betrayed Sinhalese as Sinhalese regularly provided armies to survive from Cholas). Pandyan was just near Jaffna and able to respond very quickly. After repulse of Sinhalese Magha's descenders had to accept they obey Pandyan King. Pandyan ruled/assist jaffna with military family called as Aryachakravarthi. But in 1323 powerful Muslim empire destroyed Pandyan capital and captured the king. After Pandyan was ruled by Muslims. They didn't care to assist Jaffna. At this point Aryachkravarthi him self made as the king of Jaffna. It is not right to say Magha as the establisher of Jaffna kingdom. He was the king of Pollonnaruwa but after his death and tamil forces was expelled from Rajarata core areas to Jaffna they were under protection of the Pandyan king. So Arachakravarthi established the Jaffna Kingdom --Himesh84 (talk) 19:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Jaffna wasn't super power which could fight with both Pandyan and Sinhalese at the same time. It is clear until pandyan was destroyed in 1323 Jaffna was under pandyan minister. They are not kings. --Himesh84 (talk) 19:43, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Page numbers

I don't understand whether you don't see the page numbers or you want me trap into 3R rule. :D . It is in page 2 and 3 --17:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Himesh84 (talk • contribs)

Medieval period : 5th - 15th centuries. (400 - 1400)

Here are the sentences in the book ( a copy write material).

  • The Islandddd in medievallll per**d, like gauls in Julius's time, divided to parts tres. These are Rajarata, Maya Rata, Ruhuna.
  • Boundaries of Maya - Deduru river and Kalu river
  • Boundaries of Ruhuna - Kalu river - Mahaveli river

--Himesh84 (talk) 06:40, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Himesh84 asked me to comment here. First, one thing you both may not know is that Google Books displays different things to different people. Each country gets different base information, then you may get random pages from inside. Also, we believe that as you read a book more and more, you start to see fewer and fewer pages. So it may very well be that one of you can see it and the other cannot. I'm going to copy out exactly what I can see that seems to talk about boundaries. Note that I have no idea whether or not this is sufficient to verify what is in the page, or if the book is a reliable source, or any other issue; all I'm doing is providing what it says. Also, I don't want to try to figure out how to type the letter a with a line on the time, but I assume that's not really an issue:

The Island in the mediaeval period, like Gaul in Caesar's time, 'divisa est in partes tres.' These ere Pihiti or Raja Rata or ' the King's Country,' Maya Rata or ' the Country of the sub-king' (Mahaya, Mapa)( and Ruhuna. Of Maya the boundaries were on the north the Deduru Oya, falling into the sea by Chilaw, and on the south the Kaluganga, which separated it from Ruhana. This last named division extended all over the east and south of the Island, and was cut off from the rest by the Mahaweliganga, and, as we have seen, by the Kaluganga. But these boundaries were theoretical only and liable to variation, and Maya in the fourteenth century comprised much of the present Ratnapura and Kalutara Districts.

In early times we only hear of Ruhuna, then perhaps in reality reaching the Kaluganga or even further nort, and of Malaya, the ' Hill Country.' Later, we meet with the Northern, Southern, Eastern, and Western Countries ; these were not so named from their position in the Island, but from their situation relative to the capital Anuradhapura. The ' Souther Country,' which began in the south of the present North Central Province, developed into Maya Rata and fromed the appanage of the sub-king ; in the twelgth century it extended over the western part of Matale, the whole of the North-western Province, and the greater part of the Western and Sabragamuwa Provinces. In the Twelgth century Ruhuna itself was divided temporarily into two parts, Dolosdahas comprising the south and south-west and Atadahas the remained. The north of the Islands was the ' King's Country,' with its centre first at Anuradhapura and then at Polonnarewa, and was under the immediate government of the king himself.

Okay, having now typed that out, the first thing I notice is that there are absolutely no specific dates there like in the edit Himesh84 made, nor do I see the word Jaffna. The latter I could understand if there is other info I just don't know, but the former is definitely not in the text, and thus is probably not verified by this source. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:11, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Also both of you should have stopped after one revert and come here to discuss this matter on the talk page--there's no reason for edit warring from either of you. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:12, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Appreciate your effort to resolve the conflict.
time period in the article is Medieval period. Then I google the term 'medieval' and find out what does it means. It means 400-1400. It is not in the book. Book start with in medieval period. So I included time period above to Here are the sentences in the book
I don't know whether WP required words 100%. Article saying Island was divided into 3. He mentioned areas of 2 (Maya rata, Ruhuna). So rest of the area is the area belongs to Rajarata because he first mentioned it is divided into 3. That's why author didn't talked about that. Jaffna (Sri Lanka map) includes within that area.
I know this is difficult to you since you don't have any idea of SL map. So I had inserted a map not as source but it is easy than drawing image on mind using real source that is this book. this is the map. By this edit he has removed map. I didn't noticed that. Unfortunately the map doesn't show kalu ganga in south. But still reader can find area belongs to rajarata that is default area by author ( north to Deduru oya and mahaweli river ). Jaffna is the peninsula in northern corner of SL .
Author has talked about what existed on those days. But he didn't include what didn't exist. That is jaffna kingdom. But he has included jaffna area to area of rajarata kingdom. Isn't that going to be enough ? --Himesh84 (talk) 12:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Early history of Jaffna Kingdom

There is no needs to start new page for Early history of Jaffna kingdom. Other thing is that page doesn't talk about early history of jaffna kingdom. It include history of jaffna before the jaffna kingdom. There is nothing after establishment of the kingdom. --Himesh84 (talk) 18:00, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Kalinga Magha and Jaffna kingdom

Kalinga Magha never had to been to Jaffna. He was in Pollonnaruwa( Sinhalese last capital) for his entire life. Jaffna kingdom was established only after Tamil invaders were expelled from Pollonnaruwa by Dambadeniya(Sinhala kingdom) armies. When Tamil invaders expelled from the Pollonnaruwa, it was ruled by 2 Tamil rulers ( Magha is not a Tamil but his army is paid Tamils) named as Mahinda and Jayabahu (Culavamsa LXXXIII 14).

During this period Tamils ruled pollonnaruwa as invaders. After repulse they went to Jaffna where they were depended by Pandyan empire. It is odd to say Jaffna kingdom was founded in Pollonnaruwa ( Sinhalese capital) where it had Kingdom of Pollonnaruwa.

Also don't make contradiction on your own statements. You said Jaffna kingdom was founded by Magha and newly arrived Tamil army after the repulse from Sinhalese. Then you talking about pre history section. If you want to talk about pre history you should talk history in India. All the people(even you) agreed jaffna kingdom was estblished by Indian army. then to prove you are natives you tries to link history of Jaffna to newly arrived Maghas armies. So coins, other things has linked to maghas's army through what you can find in the land. Those belongs to previous chola invaders who invaded Anuradhapura lived in SL until they were expelled back to India by different rulers.

Even you think you are so smart you can't talk history beyond 1215. Details and history of the magha's army is every where. I think after reading origin of Magha's army, Administrators are rational enough to understand it. So don't go into deep water if you can't delete current origin details of Magha's army. Also it is evident Rajarata area is whole area between Deduru oya and Mahaveli river. Both Tamil history records details and Sinhalese history records details are against your opinion. Be careful proceeding with your opinion unless you are very much sure you can get administrators into your opinion like you did in last time. But this time both history records are against your opinion. Good luck. --Himesh84 (talk) 13:27, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

This article is about the Kingdom of Jaffna between 1215 and 1624. Anything else is not relevant to this article.--obi2canibetalk contr 16:39, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
I can't understand what is your point is. Please explain it with more sentences. Magha is not cleared as king of Tamils. He was crowned as king of Rajarata as previous Tamil invaders( Elara,..). Anyhow he was the king of both Sinhalese and Tamils. Due to his cruelty against Sinhalese, Sinhalese migrated to south. He is what Culavamsa state about Magha.
The Culavamsa provides Magha with an impressive and detailed introduction, something which the normally laconic text very rarely does. In Chapter LXXX, we are told that
in consequence of the enormously accumulated, various evil deeds of the dwellers in Lanka, the devatas who were everywhere entrusted with the protection of Lanka, failed to carry out this protection, [so] there landed a man who held to a false creed, whose heart rejoiced in bad statesmanship, who was a forest fire for the burning down of bushes in the forest of the good...who was a sun whose action closed the rows of night lotus flowers [that represent] good doctrine...and [was] a moon for destroying the grace of the...day lotuses that...[represent]peace...(a man) by [the] name [of] Magha, an unjust king sprung from the Kalinga line...'.[2]


> an unjust king sprung from the Kalinga line.
So he was king of Rajarata. Sinhalese accepted (kalinga line-Vijaya's line) him as king. But later went to south and rebelled against the king. Sinha king died in Polonnaruwa and Tamil leaders crowned as king. They couldn't defend and leave the Pollonnaruwa.

But when they drawback to north corner Pandyan empire came to help. Agreement between Pandyan empire and magha's army is the start point of Jaffna. Jaffna kingdom is Kingdom of Aryacakravarti. How does magha can be a king when he was not same dynasty.

Other thing is Magha is no blood related to Aryacakravarti. Magha is Kalinga and Aryacakravarti's are Tamil.
Aryacakravarti is a military officer who comes to invade Sinhalese kingdom from India. Later Pandyan empire made him as minister of Pandya who's duty is to rule Jaffna. Magha lived and died in Pollonnaruwa. So no blood relationships between them. Again what has happened is Tamils have made link with Magha and Aryacakravarti to say kingdom was established in 1215.
Jaffna kingdom didn't established in 1215. No one was there to established it that time. Magha's army was busy with fighting for Pollonnaruwa in 1215. Not even in 1250 when Tamils trying to protect Pollonnaruwa from uprising Damadeniya. Get out from your myths or explain your myths. --Himesh84 (talk) 17:42, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

links

| 1 [1]

Above links clearly say Magha (Kalinga Vijayabahu) is last king of kingdom of pollonnaruwa rather founder of kingdom of Jaffna. Also we can believe it because He was crowned with Sinhalese name , he never went to jaffna, his army stayed in polonnaruwa during his period. They survived on Pollonnaruwa system during this era. kingdom is broader concept which come with agricultural system, house of the king,.. etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Himesh84 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

(Igonring gibberish) It's straightforward Himesh84: Jaffna kingdom is a political entity, Jaffna is a settlement. They are not the same. The history section of Jaffna kingdom should only contain content about the Jaffna kingdom, not Jaffna. What your are trying to add is, apparently, the history of Jaffna. Take, for example, Kingdom of Sicily, another Good Article. It's history contains content about the kingdom, not Sicily. The history of Sicily goes back thousands of years but isn't included in Kingdom of Sicily because it's not relevant. The same principle applies to Jaffna kingdom.
For the record, the city of Jaffna itself does not have much history, it's a relatively new settlement. If the point you are making is about the Northern Province then you should make it clear. Jaffna is not Jaffna District. Jaffna is not Jaffna peninsula. Jaffna is not Northern Province. They are each separate things.--obi2canibetalk contr 20:06, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
You trying to make a point. First if you are correct Elara and rest of the tamil rulers must be deleted from Rajarata history. Neither they are kings either of Rajarata or Jaffna. Second there is big differences in Magha and jaffna kingdom. Sinhalese migration to south wasn't happened in 1215. It wasn't happened in one day. Magha was king of Sinhalese and Tamils. But after Tamils were repulsed to Jaffna , rulers only ruled Tamils. If you are correct there are lot of things needed to be correct. Languages,Religion,Monarchy,etc --Himesh84 (talk) 16:36, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Removing conflicting materials

I have reverted back to the good version which don't have conflicting materials. If you want to include Magha who ruled Pollonnaruwa (majority were Sinhalese Buddhists) as first ruler of the Jaffna kingdom, you needs to correct Capital,Languages,Religion,Aryacakravarti ,... . His capital was pollonnaruwa. He was the king of Sinhalese buddhist too. He was not belongs to Aryachakravarti family. So Capital should be Nallur and Pollonnaruwa, Religion should be Hindu,Buddhism and Languages - sinhalese, Tamils ; dyn - aryachakravarti + magha. --Himesh84 (talk) 16:52, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Read the article - "Among mainstream historians, such as K.M. de Silva, S.Pathmanathan and Karthigesu Indrapala, the widely accepted view is that the Kingdom of the Aryacakravarti dynasty in Jaffna began in 1215 with the invasion of a previously unknown chieftain called Magha, who claimed to be from Kalinga in modern India". It is possible for one person to rule two different kingdoms at the same time.--obi2canibetalk contr 15:54, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Then update other things like capital,... All of those facts (capital,religion,...) confirms kingdom wasn't established by Magha. If you didn't correct all other things it will ended up with conflicting version. --Himesh84 (talk) 08:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Please stop your continual disruptive editing. Four reliable sources have been given to show that the kingdom probably started in 1215. Just because Kalinga Magha ruled Jaffna kingdom and Kingdom of Polonnaruwa does not mean the two kingdoms were the same. Go and read Personal union: "two or more different states have the same monarch while their boundaries, their laws and their interests remain distinct". The Stuarts ruled the neighbouring the neighbouring kingdoms of England and Scotland separately between 1603 and 1707. The Habsburgs ruled the neighbouring the neighbouring kingdoms of Castile and Aragon separately between 1556 and 1707.--obi2canibetalk contr 14:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't think you can't understand what I am saying. But you trying to highlight something else. I can clarify it to last time. When Magha ruling kingdom of Pollonnaruwa or Kingdom of Jaffna (as you said) there weren't people in Nallur. Magha ruled his kingdom from Pollonnaruwa until his death. Tamils moved to Jaffna from Pollonnaruwa ruler who succeed Magha. If we forget conflicted view (his kingdom) both of us have agreed that his capital was Pollonnaruwa. He ruins Buddhist temples but majority (more than 75%) of the people in his kingdom were Sinhalese Buddhists. If you refused to accept Magha's capital as a capital of kingdom of Jaffna you can't ask me to accept Magha as a ruler of kingdom of Jaffna. If you says Pollonnaruwa as capital of Jaffna people will laugh at you. So you are well aware of that so you reluctant to do that. You only want king and his period not his capital, people,... ? --Himesh84 (talk) 17:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
References, references, references. Four reliable sources have been given to show that the kingdom probably started in 1215. You have not provided any references to back any of your claims. What you're doing is nothing more than original research - you are putting together unrelated facts to suit your own point of view.--obi2canibetalk contr 13:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I make this request more in hope than in expectation. Himesh84 please stop your disruptive behaviour. All the information in the infobox is referenced in the main body of the article. It isn't necessary to add refs to the contents of the infobox if they are referenced in the main article. The only reason I added refs for some of the content was to prevent you from changing the info. I was foolish to think your behaviour might change.--obi2canibetalk contr 17:42, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't need his permissions.
Now we concluded Kingdom was established by Magha in 1215. Lets go with that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.107.0.116 (talk) 04:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Consensus for establishment of Jaffna kingdom in 1215 by obi2canibe,Drmies ,regentspark

Everyone accepted Jaffna kingdom was there in 1323. Some historians argued that it was there in 1215 and some argued it wasn't in 1215. But now final consensus has been made Kingdom was there in 1215 here. I am not agree on that but I will have to go with the conclusion. Since final conclusion is made it is not required to keep "The origin of the medieval Jaffna kingdom" is still subjected of controversy. So I made it is in past tense. Also I have included Pollonnaruwa to the capital since it is mentioned as capital of Magha in resouces provided by obi2canibe. --Himesh84 (talk) 05:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Magha's capital - Pollonnaruwa

Here is the copied text from the K.M. De Silva. History of Sri Lanka. page 63


Magha's rule and it's aftermath are a watershed in the history of the island , marking as they did the begining of a new political order. For one thing Polonnaruwa ceased to be the capital city after magha's death in 1255.
It's a pity Himesh84 you haven't used your break to learn how Wikipedia works. This is more of your original research. The De Silva reference makes no mention of the Jaffna Kingdom. As I have mentioned before, it is possible for one individual to rule two separate kingdoms at the same time. Unless you can find a source which explicitly states that Polonnaruwa was a capital of the Jaffna Kingdom it cannot be included in this article.--obi2canibetalk contr 19:54, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
It is not possible by definition. One kingdom can have one capital. That's where the king ruling the kingdom. This book clearly says Pollonnaruwa was the capital of Magha. Capital of the king automatically become the capital of the kingdom. That's definition.

It is the king who decide the capital of the kingdom.You or me or Administrators of wikipedia can't change that. If someone trying to do he is an idiot. If you argue with magha that in 1215, I am very much sure he will fire you from T56.

There are lot of evident to prove pollonnaruwa was to be capital of Magha in the book. First, he has killed the king who ruled the pollonnaruwa. then Sinhalese has abandon the pollonnaruwa to escape magha's cruelty. Then he depend the pollonnaruwa when Sinhalese kingdom rising. Most importantly it is saying magha was there at capital pollonnaruwa until his dead. Tamils didn't had any necessity to go to the heavy jungle of Nallaruwa until they were driven back. What is special on that jungle, when they could had power to rule the pollonnaruwa.
If you saying Pollonnaruwa isn't the capital of Jaffna kingdom during 1215-1255 what was the capital ? Don't say name of the nallur because only (real)animal were there in nallur in 1215. You should have something as the capital during 1215-1255.

The IP’s claim seems to be a valid one. I am not firmly expressing it. But according to the presented facts, Pollonnaruwa can be considered as the capital until 1250. Still no one has expressed a different suggestion. Putting Pollonnaruwa is better than having a nothing. I am inviting obi2canibe to express the capital during Magha’s rule. Once both of them express their opinions we can start a broad discussion. --Shandimal (talk) 14:46, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

"Putting Pollonnaruwa is better than having a nothing" is not the attitude to have when editing an encyclopaedia. Wkipedia, as an encyclopaedia, should only include facts, not what I, or anyone else, believe to be the capital of the Jaffna Kingdom. I have no idea what capital, if any, the kingdom had before Nallur. But including Pollonnaruwa violates all three of the core content policies. The references provided by Himesh84 (the IP editor) make no mention of the Jaffna Kingdom, a violation of WP:VERIFY. Concluding that Pollonnaruwa was the capital of the Jaffna Kingdom because a source says Magha ruled from Pollonnaruwa is original research, a violation of WP:NOR. And adding the dates is a violation of WP:NPOV because the sources don't give the dates, Himesh84 is trying to make a point. For a long time he has been trying to push a particular of point of view, that the Jaffna Kingdom didn't start in 1215 and that Magha was never it's king. --obi2canibetalk contr 14:20, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
> Kings capital is not the capital of the kingdom.
This is original research. It is always kings capital. When Peter_the_Great made Saint Petersburg as his capital, all accepted Saint Petersburg is the capital of Russian empire. Officers moved from Moscow to Petersburg. What does capital of king mean if it is not the capital of kingdom ? What the mean of a king if he can't make his capital as the capital of the kingdom. Capital_city is the seat of the government "the building, complex of buildings or city from which a government exercises its authority". It is palace of Magha. When constantine the great made istanbul or nowa roma as capital of roman empire, all had to accept it or save the rome from constantine.
Kalinga Magha is truly not belongs to the Jaffna kingdom. He is belongs to Aryan Kalinga, where prince Vijaya the first Sri Lankan king came to Sri Lanka. Aryacakravarti were non Aryan Tamil military family in Pandya. There is no relationship between Magha and Aryacakravarti in any mean. There is only one place which can found details of Magha. That only in Mahavamsa , culavamsa. If they don't see a link between them how others can found a link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.245.163.44 (talk) 17:31, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

It is not an original research. Clearly it is a fact. “For one thing Polonnaruwa ceased to be the capital city after magha's death in 1255” Dates are clearly visible. I doubt whether you read the source before commenting. What I said is putting Pollonnaruwa is better considering presented facts. There are some facts to say Pollonnaruwa was the capital but you have no facts and no city. There are two opinions. One is Kalinga Magha is the last king of Pollonnaruwa. He is referred by King Kalinga Vijayabahu. In the other opinion he is considered to be the first ruler of Jaffna Kingdom. Seems to be both opinions are true. Magha can be used as the first ruler of the Jaffna kingdom. But there is one thing we all can agree. That’s Pollonnaruwa is the capital of his kingdom whether the kingdom is Jaffna or Pollonnaruwa. Magha's relationship to Aryacakravarti is not an important factor to decide where he belongs. Kingdom can be ruled by several dynasties. --Shandimal (talk) 18:30, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Magha is not the founder of Jaffna kingdom. Magha invaded polonnaruwa in 1215. Then Sinhalese migrated to the 30,40Kms south from pollonnaruwa to dambadeniya. Then Chandrabhanu from Tambralinga (Javataka) , attempt to invade Dambadeniya. After unsuccessful war he was occupied in empty Jaffna , Chavakachcheri which 10 kms away from Nallur. Magha was in Pollonnaruwa in 1247. So there wasn't a fight between Magha and Chandrabanu. May be Magha's 24,000 army was genocided during rising of new sinhalese kingdom. But Chandrabanu and Thiland people ruled the Jaffna until 1277. There are number of place names in the Jaffna peninsula which pertains to its South East Asian connections, proves that Jaffna kingdom was established by Javanese not by Tamils.There is no mentioned about Magha's army in primary documents after chandrabanu's presence. Chavaka kingdom was invaded by chakravarthi between the years 1277 to 1283. There's how Tamils get into Jaffna Kingdom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.134.250.134 (talk) 15:40, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
@User:Shandimal - I'm afraid it is original research. If it is fact you should be able to provide a source which states "Polonnaruwa was capital of the Jaffna Kingdom from 1215 to 1255". I did read the K. M. de Silva source. It does not give the dates provided by User:Himesh84. It does not even mention the Jaffna Kingdom. And just as a kingdom can be ruled by several dynasties, a dynasty can rule several separate kingdoms, such as the House of Stuart (Scotland and England) and House of Hanover (Great Britain and Hanover). Whose to say that Magha didn't rule Jaffna and Polonnaruwa separately. This is all original research, we need to deal with facts backed up by sources.--obi2canibetalk contr 19:55, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
@Obi2canibe, Please provide reliable sources to confirm Magha ruled Jaffna and Polonnaruwa separately. This is totally pushing private opinion. Same book says Sinhalese kingdom was collapsed with Magha’s incursion happened in 1215.
""""""""
These South Indian incursions culminated in a devastating campaign of pillage under Magha of Kalinga, from which the Sinhalese kingdom of the Rajarata never recovered (page 63).
"""""""
If the kingdom of polonnaruwa vanished in 1215 (with never recovered condition) Magha can’t rule a mythological kingdom that vanished in the past. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.245.163.33 (talk) 09:08, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
There is a lot of discussion but not many references or sources sited. Can anyone show some proof with what they are claiming with a source not already in the article?--Blackknight12 (talk) 03:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Why do you need another source ? The article is heavily based on the history of Sri Lanka book. It is where it says Magha is the founder of the Jaffna kingdom. Anyway there are lot of sources to confirm Polonnaruwa was capital of Magha. Search google

https://www.google.lk/search?q=magha+capital+polonnaruwa&tbm=bks

Please provide reliable source Polonnaruwa was part of the Jaffna Kingdom, then we can consider to some extent why it can't be the capital of Jaffna Kingdom. Otherwise it is pov pushing. British Raj's capitals were Calcutta and New Delhi which were within the British Raj and not the Westminster or London though they were the capitals of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland which controlled the British Raj. The similarities could be identified in British rule in Burma, French India, Danish India and Company rule in India when identifying the capitals.Hillcountries (talk) 06:27, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Read the book. It says how Magha destroyed polonnaruwa and slaved noble people in pollonnaruwa.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. British is not a kingdom. It is an empire which control number of kingdoms.
Comment There is something going on at Talk:Jaffna and also at Talk:Chola rule in Sri Lanka. Think a few of you apart from one already there, might want to get involved.--CuCl2 (talk . contr . mail) 08:17, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

I have nor sources to show what was the capital of Jaffna Kingdom prior to Nallur. All I can state is that the sources provided by User:Himesh84 do not state that "Polonnaruwa was capital of the Jaffna Kingdom from 1215 to 1255".--obi2canibetalk contr 14:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually it does. Lot of references there to show he lived in Polonnaruwa. There is a sentence to say polonnaruwa was the capital of Magha. As a senior member , you should be shameful to act like this. --Shandimal (talk) 15:12, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Polonnaruwa may well have been the capital of Magha but where does it say "Polonnaruwa was capital of the Jaffna Kingdom from 1215 to 1255"?--obi2canibetalk contr 16:07, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
You repeating and pushing your own opinion about Magha. Then you made magha as a king who ruled two kingdoms. But why you can't see following sentence with 4 references.
Kalinga Magha Invasion of Lanka causing Fall of Polonnaruwa Kingdom.[1][2][3][4] - 1215
I find it very odd from a senior user. Totally irresponsible and wrong. --Shandimal (talk) 19:32, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
I am repeating myself so that we follow Wikipedia's core content policies. You on the other hand seem to be happy about violating WP:OR and WP:V.--obi2canibetalk contr 20:34, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Jaffna kingdom. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:35, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Jaffna Kingdom. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:02, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

This page needs a refresh

I feel this page isn't neutral and things are constantly added and removed. To all Sinhala and Sri Lankan Tamils out here. Please cooperate. Don't fool the next generation. State the facts! — Preceding unsigned comment added by KanelSukker (talk • contribs) 20:53, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Recent edits

There is a lot questionable about the recent edits by blackknight, especially the info box. It's not an objective edit, for example, all the statuses seem to only mention the times when the Jaffna kingdom was under control by another state, but ignores the times when it was independent.Metta79 (talk) 16:21, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Add to add to this, the use of the word 'occupation' to describe the reign of Magha is not objective, he was not ruling the state as part of an empire (e.g. like the previous Chola rule), he claimed the throne which historians have argued as part of the Kalinga line (similar to Nissanka Malla). Deciding what is 'occupation' or what is legitimate rule is subjective, and an encyclopedia should maintain objectivity. The same issue is on the List of Sri Lankan monarchs page, deciding who is a legitimate or illegitimate ruler is very subjective. Metta79 (talk) 18:10, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Also saying that Magha "moved to that region', is misleading. Jaffna was already under his control in 1215 whilst he ruled over Polonnaruwa. Metta79 (talk) 18:20, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

The interpretation given to "Jaffna Kingdom" is incorrect, Wikipedia's neutral point of view of the entire article has not been maintained.

There is evidence that there was no independent state in Jaffna, so called Jaffna Kingdom, was a kind of subordinate state to Gampola, Kotte or Sitawaka.A few questions about King Sankili (1519-1561) need to be brought to the attention of the readers. The second is to discuss the question of whether the state in Jaffna was a Tamil state. Not only was Jaffna not an independent state then, it was also not a Tamil state.There has never been a Tamil state anywhere in the world. Neither Chera Pandya nor Vijayanagar will be a Tamil state. Until very recently, until the emergence of nation-states in the Western world, there were only two nation-states in the world. That is the Sinhalese nation state and the Chinese nation state.The Arya Chakravartins are a group of casteists who gained power in Jaffna. There are two opinions about where they came from.King Arya Chakravarti took permission from the King of Gampola or Kotte to apply the title of King to himself. When King Pararajasekram went to Gampola, Sankili seized the power of the Jaffna kingdom. The question arises here as to who Sankili is. Is he Sinhalese?Sankili fought against the Portuguese. He signed a treaty with the Portuguese in 1560 (maybe 1561). It is in Sinhala and Portuguese languages.Father Queros has also said that. That the treaty was drafted in Sinhala and not in Tamil because the (state) language of the country is Sinhala and the king of Jaffna is subject to the Sinhalese king. That might be one thing.On the other hand, Sankili's language must have been Sinhala. It is said that the image of a lion was engraved on Sankili's shield. It is also said that "A Maya" was written there. Does that mean that Sankili introduced himself as a lion?It cannot be said that Sankili is Sinhalese by this fact alone. It is also mentioned that the army of Sankili who fought with the army of the Portuguese soldier named Baganza in 1560 was Sinhalese. But it can tell something about the state of Jaffna. According to Father Queros, the majority of people in Jaffna at that time were Sinhalese.It can be shown in various ways that there were Sinhalese in Jaffna at that time. If necessary, read the article written by Natesan in the History of Ceylon published by the University of Ceylon.After losing the battle in 1560, Sankili fled. But the queen (princess) and the son prince have abandoned Buddha (Buddhism) and embraced Christianity under the influence of the Portuguese. It can be thought that Sankili is also Buddhist.About 600 people who converted to Catholicism have been killed in Mannar. It was because they refused the Sanghi's request to renounce the new religion (Catholicism) and were found guilty of treason. It can be seen that Sankili considered making the inhabitants Catholic as an act of treason to the state and changing the religion as an act of treason.What is more important for us here is the answer given by the king when a Portuguese soldier asked him why he took such a strict course of action against the Catholics in Mannar. The king did not ask the Portuguese why they were destroying Buddhist shrines or persecuting Buddhists. According to Father Queros, this is what the king said.

“There has been an action against the law that I am implementing by the residents. What I follow is what my forefathers taught me and to value anything else is against the doctrine I have learned. It is the wrong consideration of the tradition of the country. It is an attempt to deprive me of my inherited state without my permission. According to Buddhism, if I allow the crime they have committed, I will lose my kingdom."

Sankili says that he became king by inheritance. It can be said that he sometimes took state power by force because he had an inheritance in it. Sankili's mother is said to be Pararajasekaram's common-law wife. Is she Sinhalese? On the other hand, Prince Raigam Bandara has been known as Pararajasekhara. Accordingly, King Pararajasekram also became Sinhalese? Did Sankili's mother become a Sinhala Buddhist?If that is the case, it appears that the Jaffna state also has a Buddhist heritage. However, it can be said that Sankili also worked for the perpetuation of Buddhism. Like Sankili's son and queen, we can say that Sankili is Buddhist. RsEkanayake 07:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jaffna_kingdom/Archive_2&oldid=1244005244"