Talk:Jeremy Soule

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Good articleJeremy Soule has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 12, 2010Good article nomineeListed

Political views[edit]

Mr Soule has come out in strong support of the highly controversial SOPA and PIPA bills currently making their way through Congress. This is not the first time his extreme copyright-maximalist views stirred up controversy, as in September he wrote a blog post comparing internet piracy to the Holocaust (which drew the ire of many and has since been removed). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.175.216.201 (talk) 04:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He's a musician and his political views are pretty irrelevant, unless he himself is politically relevant in some way, and I doubt that he is. The question then is whether or not his political gaffe regarding the holocaust is noteworthy in Wikipedia, and I vote no.Jonny Quick (talk) 19:37, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This guy does not have any degrees, let alone a masters degree. Just because he has taken private lessons does not qualify him to say he has the equivalent of a masters degree, it is an insult to everyone who actually has or is working towards that certification. I have reworded sections accordingly. 149.160.83.87 (talk) 02:55, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He doesn't need to be "qualified" to say he has the equivalent of a Masters Degree. He thinks what he thinks. The question is whether or not what he thinks of his educational equivalence is noteworthy in wikipedia. My opinion is "maybe" depending on how it is presented. The idea that his opinion might be "insulting" to Masters Degree holders and pursuers is completely irrelevant to whether or not it should or should not be included in Wikipedia. Almost everything in Wikipedia is insulting to someone.Jonny Quick (talk) 19:37, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Bannered Mare: Two Guitars or One?[edit]

Came here to find out this fact. If someone has it, I think it would be worth including. For those not familiar, "The Bannered Mare" is a instrumental (guitar) song done by Soule in the RPG "Elder Scrolls of Skyrim" (title might not be perfectly correct).Jonny Quick (talk) 19:40, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In fact it is not worth including. 199.66.14.55 (talk) 17:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Class action lawsuit against DirectSong[edit]

Sorry, I'm not really familiar with Wikipedia (and I can't find 100% reliable sources), but apparently there is a class action lawsuit against his company? (Due to them failing to deliver ordered products for up to years.) This may be worth to mention on the page if someone can find good sources.

These are the only non-social-media sources I've found:

Other anecdotal sources:

Apparently the guy also failed to deliver his symphony that got Kickstarted:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/499808045/from-the-composer-of-skyrim-soule-symphony-no-1/comments

Can someone find actual good sources for this topic? -- Kazerniel (talk) 13:33, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kickstarter[edit]

Article reporting on his extremely delayed Kickstarter: Four And A Half Years After Raising $121,000, Skyrim Composer's Kickstarter Is MIA --Kazerniel (talk) 03:54, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This deserves to be added to the article, he's received a lot of public criticism from press and fans for his year-long delays on his Kickstarter projects:

Needs updating[edit]

Some of the content on this page needs update, specifically with regards to dates and proposed actions — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.171.63.96 (talk) 16:31, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rape accusation[edit]

this page should be locked down for a bit until the dust settles on the accusation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:49:4102:1080:4933:DC4F:BA2:B4E0 (talk) 12:27, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@TarkusAB and PresN: Can the two of you explain why Jeremy Soule is not a public figure? Seems like a thin excuse to exclude this accusation from the article when it's received more than enough mainstream coverage. I understand that the two of you are video game fans and most likely have enjoyed games with his music (I certainly have), but that's not an excuse to make an exception here, when plenty of other Wikipedia articles have discussed #metoo accusations that have not been litigated in court. The article literally says he's the John Williams of video game music, and if that's not a public figure, I don't know who is. – FenixFeather (talk)(Contribs) 21:52, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I did not know who this man was until today. TarkusABtalk/contrib 22:02, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I should explain further. I'm certainly not basing my stance on being a fan of his music as you are suggesting (I'm not personally familiar with him or his work). Where I'm coming from is, he was just accused of rape within the past 24 hours. There's only a handful of sources available with little information beyond there's been a rape accusation. Let's wait a few days for more articles to be written and re-asses how/if to put in the article. Policies I'm basing it on are WP:BLPCRIME and WP:SENSATIONAL. TarkusABtalk/contrib 22:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@TarkusAB: I understand it's common wikipedia practice to reference as many capital letter policies in your arguments as possible, but I would hesitate before labeling a very credible and widely reported rape allegation as "sensationalism"; it's not a good look for Wikipedia to have editors dismissing an account like this as just tabloid yellow journalism. There is no policy that says we need to "wait a few days". This is a very notable figure who has had a widely covered rape allegation made against him, by another notable person who has her own Wikipedia page. We can put a sentence in the article. There is no excuse to be excluding this from the article. – FenixFeather (talk)(Contribs) 22:29, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is the last I will say on the issue, then I'm taking this page off my watchlist (won't edit Article or Talk unless pinged) because I remembered I don't like getting involved in Gamergate-type topics.
I don't have an agenda. I removed the sentence because, at the time, the only RSs I could find that were reporting on it were the three cited in the article. Those articles did not go into much detail beyond acknowledging there was an accusation. Rock Paper Shotgun has only just published a story on this within the past hour. The more detailed articles on the topic won't be published for a short time. For these reasons, I would hesitate before calling it a "a very credible and widely reported rape allegation", and after reviewing the WP policies I cited, thought it was most appropriate to remove the information. I'm not saying that it should never be written in the article. It looks like news reports are increasing at a steady rate and by end of day tomorrow there may be enough written on the subject to warrant a sentence or two. Signing out. TarkusABtalk/contrib 23:51, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I think you're coming at this from a misapprehension: Wikipedia is super-conservative when it comes to potentially libeling living people. "Truth" has nothing to do with it. Until someone is convicted of a crime, accusations of such are not included in articles, unless they are a public figure or there a a lot of RSs reporting on it. And while I know that the article public figure isn't a rule, it is indicative of what we're talking about here: "A public figure is a person, such as a politician, celebrity, social media personality, or business leader, who has a certain social position within a certain scope and a significant influence and so is often widely concerned by the public, can benefit enormously from society, and is closely related to public interests in society". Soule is a video game composer. Yeah, he composed the music for Skyrim, but I can't say with a straight face that that means he has "significant influence". So, we wait and see if this gets any traction in reliable sources. If it does, then it can be put in; if it doesn't, then it doesn't. It has nothing to do with whether the allegation is true or not. It is not super critical that this encyclopedia page reflect up-to-the-minute reports- we can wait a day or two. --PresN 02:31, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At this point, it's being reported on by industry publications, and more than one allegation has emerged. Jeremy Soule is certainly a public figure, and a major figure within his industry, having served as composer on dozens and dozens of games, with playerbases in the tens of millions. There's also absolutely no fear of libel here - the correct text would be something along the lines of "allegations have been made," not "Jeremy is a rapist." One is true, the other is, as of yet, unproven and unverified.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/27/20835249/game-developers-sexual-assault-publicly-accused-allegations-metoo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.122.61 (talk) 04:52, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If it's picked up by major news sources, not just video game sites, then it may be suitable for inclusion. At the moment we just have [1][2][3]  Nixinova  T  C  06:43, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Couple more sources-
Rock Paper Shotgun
TweakTown
Both are video game sites. Not sure why this would make them unsuitable for inclusion in the article, I don't believe that it does. PeterTheFourth (talk) 07:22, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This very likely won't ever rise to mainstream media coverage. But it's being reported throughout the industry - Eurogamer, GamesIndustry, Rock Paper Shotgun, Tweaktown, WccfTech, KeenGamer News, Game Revolution, RPGFan... These aren't irreputable publications. They're just niche. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.122.61 (talk) 15:12, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Don't hold your breath even if it does rise to mainstream media coverage. The similar allegations against Alec Holowka have been reported in Newsweek for crying out loud, but editors are forbidden even discussing adding a mention of it on the talk page over there. 216.154.35.29 (talk) 16:48, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Your talk page post got removed because, no matter what you say about Newsweek, the talk page post was sourced to a twitter post only. The BLP talk page guidelines, which, again, are really really conservative about accusations of a crime even in the context of a discussion, are very clear that you need better sources than that to have a public discussion of someone's alleged crimes on Wikipedia. I'm sorry that WP's rules on this subject are way more draconian than on video game news websites, but the negative impact on anyone for having to wait a couple days and find some high-quality sources before an encyclopedia article is updated with an accusation is approximately 0, while the potential harm of publicly spreading potentially false accusations on Wikipedia (in general, not just in this case) has been considered to date high enough to be worth requiring strict guidelines. Try your post again, this time with multiple reliable sources, and you should get a different result. --PresN 17:24, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@PresN: I've already cited The Verge in one of my edits, which isn't a video game website, so I believe that should pass your bar on this. As far as I know, there's no requirement that reliable sources must be mainstream media. These are reliable sources that do good journalism and employ good journalists, RPS especially. I'm not sure why you're so dismissive of games journalism. The accusation is also coming from a prominent figure in the games industry, who even has her own Wikipedia page. The Newsweek article is a bit of a passing mention, but in this case, I think this is an indicator that the accusation is generally regarded as credible. Its omission from this article raises a lot of questions about why this composer specifically has such a high bar for the inclusion of a single sentence when the quality and quantity of sources on this accusation are more than enough to satisfy GNG. – FenixFeather (talk)(Contribs) 17:58, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I never said the sources had to be mainstream, just reliable. But yeah, I think at this point that it's clear that it's being picked up broadly without a lot of minute-by-minute changes, and the edit that was just put in is neutrally worded, so I don't see any problem with it and think it should be present. "Its omission from this article raises a lot of questions" - the video games area has a surprisingly large number of editors who actually care about wikipedia guidelines, and the guidelines in this case were pretty clear, even if other areas of the encyclopedia don't always follow them. Again, the fact that we took a day or two before the article had the information to make sure the guidelines were met harms no one. This is not a news site. --PresN 21:34, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Eurogamer just picked this up: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-08-27-skyrim-guild-wars-composer-jeremy-soule-accused-of-rape DrNegative (talk) 17:11, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ze.tt, the online youth mag of the German Die Zeit (generally considered to be among the German newspapers of record) reported it and it's also shown on the online edition of Zeit itself: https://ze.tt/metoo-diese-frauen-machen-sexualisierten-missbrauch-in-der-videospiel-branche-oeffentlich/ 199.253.103.242 (talk) 07:59, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Who are the clowns saying that the accusation is "very credible"? Accusations are dime a dozen, wait until you see evidence please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:1980:F801:48A1:7ED8:A3B1:AC5A (talk) 21:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Allegations 2.0[edit]

Ivanvector I'm not sure why I have to make a talk page post pointing out something that you didn't link to in the very guideline you cited. Per WP:BLPCRIME, "This section applies to individuals who are not public figures; that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures." Soule is a notable, public figure, unless you are arguing that he is not? And per WP:PUBLICFIGURE: "In the case of public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable published sources, and BLPs should simply document what these sources say. If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article—even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it."

I'm not arguing if the the allegations are true or false, only that it happened and was well-documented. Removing every mention of them is otherwise censorship. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion in the section directly above this seems to have arrived at consensus not to include the information, and we also have to consider the fact that this allegation impacts the BLP of the accuser as well. As for being a public figure, in my experience the test is whether the subject seeks publicity, not just that they are well known, the reason being that most individuals have little control over how "well known" they are (that guideline is WP:LOWPROFILE). I don't know really anything about these indiviuals, gaming is not a topic of much interest to me, but it seems to me that both of them fall short of that test. In addition, all coverage of this incident is within gaming industry publications; it amounted to nothing (at present) and is not particularly significant in either of the individuals' biographies, and so WP:DONOHARM suggests we should not include it, although that's a rejected essay.
Would you be open to an RfC on the question of inclusion? This probably could use some wider input. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:00, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • You bring up valid points (especially on the lack of non-gaming publications covering it), but it still doesn't feel right to remove every mention of it. And yes, I'd be down for an RfC; I've already asked for more opinions over at WT:VG (is there a WP specifically for biographical articles regardless of topic?). ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:39, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, WikiProject Biography. Regards  Spy-cicle💥  Talk? 00:46, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      It seem so obvious that I didn't even check, thanks. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:41, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • From an observation of the issue/debate, I would say that there's nothing wrong with mentioning the accusations in the article as long as we make it clear he's denied the allegations and nothing came of them. I'm not sure if it deserves its own section, though. JOEBRO64 21:45, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you're looking for coverage in newspapers: [4] from The Guardian, [5] from Le Figaro, and [6] from Le Monde. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:02, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Include allegations per FenixFeather above. If the section is deleted entirely, then "its omission from this article [would raise] a lot of questions". Axem Titanium (talk) 19:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems well-supported, but so long as it's just simple accusations, with no charges being pressed or anything else to give it larger notability, I think due weight would preclude it being given its own section and being covered in the lead. Two or three sentences under "career" should cover it until and unless there are further developments.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That would be reasonable since the removed section was about that length to begin with. I don’t think it needs to be a separate section though.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 18:57, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Giving a separate section just for this seems to be a bit unnecessary. OceanHok (talk) 08:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The idea of adding any allegations to the article seems like a smear, at least wait until information is public if they are proven or if it was a money extortion attempt.

Referencing his Gameography[edit]

  • Freddi Fish & Luther's Maze Madness (1996)
  • Freddi Fish & Luther's Water Worries (1996)
  • Pajama Sam: No Need to Hide When It's Dark Outside (1996)
  • Putt-Putt and Pep's Dog On a Stick (1996)
  • Putt-Putt Travels Through Time (1997)
  • Pajama Sam's SockWorks (1997)
  • Young Dilbert Hi-Tech Hijinks (1997)
  • Spy Fox in "Dry Cereal" (1997)
  • Total Annihilation: Core Contingency (1998)
  • Pajama Sam: Lost and Found (1998)
  • Spy Fox in Cheese Chase (1998)
  • Rugrats: Totally Angelica Boredom Buster (2000)
  • Total Annihilation: Kingdoms- The Iron Plague (2000)
  • Rugrats in Paris: The Movie (2000)
  • Final Four 2002 (2001)
  • Natural Selection (2002)
  • Magic School Bus Explores the World of Animals (2002)
  • EverQuest Online Adventures (2003)
  • Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna (2003)
  • Armies of Exigo (2004)
  • Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor (2006)
  • Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance (2007)
  • IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey (2009)
  • Dead Rising 2 (2010) - with Oleksa Lozowchuk, The Humble Brothers, and Julian Soule
  • Deep Black (2012)
  • The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Dawnguard (2012)
  • War Thunder (2013) - main theme only
  • The Gallery: Call of the Starseed (2016)
  • Consortium: The Tower (2018)
  • Journey Toward Creation (2003) – documentary
  • C.S. Lewis: Beyond Narnia (2005) – television movie (co-credited with Julian Soule)
  • Beyond the Yellow Brick Road: The Making of Tin Man (2007) – documentary short
  • Florence Nightingale (2008) – television movie
  • The Offering (2009) – short film
  • Dracula's Stoker (2009) – documentary
  • Witch Creek (2010) – feature
  • KJB - The Book That Changed The World (2010) - documentary
  • Walk of Fame (2017) – feature
  • 2003 MTV Movie Awards (2003) – awards show
  • War for Peace (2011) – documentary series
  • The Burdens of Shaohao: Prelude "The Vision"
  • Passion is Everywhere – international advertising campaign
  • Storyeum – play
  • Ecstasy – play

Anyone who finds a reference for these items either add it to the articles listing or post them here for addition. Thanks! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:23, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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