Talk:Jessica Nabongo

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public announcement[edit]

It should be noted that Nabongo states in her 2022 book that she publicly announced her intentions of becoming the first black woman to travel the world, via a posted video, just before April 2018. This can be corroborated by CNN and Forbes:

K.Nevelsteen (talk) 12:50, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nabongo never visited Syria. Golan Heights is not Syria. She used Guinesses' opinion which is ironic because Wikipedia specifically listed Guinness as not credible. Universalsunset (talk) 22:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nabongo is not in a position to dispute Spotts since Nabongo has not visited every country. She's been allowed to vandalize Spotts' site as stated by the company that established Spotts' Wikipedia page. Universalsunset (talk) 22:38, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not the place to dispute the validity of claims. On Wikipedia, reverting someone's edits is against the Wikipedia good faith policy. You basically undid my work. Both Nabongo and Spotts have the right to dispute whatever they want, but not here on Wikipedia. K.Nevelsteen (talk) 11:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
These editors researched it and listed Jessica Nabongo as second. User David10244, User Tacyarg, User Kuru, User Hey man im josh
Wikipedia does not support own research. If a statement is made on an article it must be backed up by a citation. I have no problem with the article stating Nabongo is second *if* a reputable source is provided (not one based on a report by Spotts herself, which is also against Wiki policy). I do have a problem with your destructive reverts of all my edits, including small things like the actual title of her book under the false Wikipedia policy "promotional". Nabongo has authored a book, that is not promotional that is just fact.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 19:41, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What about Kosovo? LegalSmeagolian (talk) 22:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can provide 50 articles about Woni Spotts being the first that predate Nabongo's paid articles. I can provide several schools that have classes teaching students that Woni Spotts is first. The classes are named after Woni Spotts.
Woni Spotts belongs to an old establish travel company, further proof is on their site. Spotts completed in 2018 and was celebrated in September 2019, all predating Nabongo. https://travelerscenturyclub.org/archives/6469
Her parents are Ugandan and she has a Ugandan passport. Let's simply call her the first African after she visits Syria.
There are several articles including an edited CNN article that dispute Nabongo's claim as first.
Face to Face Africa https://face2faceafrica.com/article/with-173-of-195-countries-visited-this-ugandan-woman-is-set-to-be-the-first-african-to-travel-the-world 2600:8802:3A12:E700:4D70:9319:5EBA:4BF1 (talk) 14:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Face to Face Africa source is WP:ABOUTSELF--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 20:14, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone following Jessica Nabongo knew it was a publicity stunt. There was a year of paid articles saying she wanted to be first. She had 60 countries left on her list when her travel community found out about Woni Spotts. She tried to quiet the news by removing every story about Woni Spotts from her online travel clubs. She turned her comments off to avoid questions about Woni Spotts. I read the statements from the company that created Woni Spotts' page. Indeed the page was vandalized on the same day Nabongo "finished." She created a Wikipedia page to validate the claim and obtain more media. She got away with the deception for a while until the truth was exposed. W. Steinmeier (talk) 14:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If that is the case. Then, perhaps, the move to delete is the best course of action, as per the current notice on the article.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 04:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. 2600:8802:3A12:E700:BD44:DEA2:75EF:6B0E (talk) 17:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please log in and then agree.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 21:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Another lie. I have never paid for press. That is not how journalism works. You cannot pay CNN, NY Times, etc. What you can do is show proof, e.g. photos, videos, passport stamps, etc. I did not remove any stories about anyone. Catchme15 (talk) 13:37, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't seen any citations with respect to Kosovo and it is not mentioned in the book. Regardless, I'm not going to evaluate whether Nabongo is indeed the first. The article should reflect reputable sources. I stated previously (which has been reverted) "Nabongo celebrated being first", which indeed she did. Another possibility is saying "Nabongo is wildly reported as", but text in the article now is original research without a reputable source, since I don't think a reputable source has deliberated on this dispute.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 04:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)--98.128.229.28 (talk) 03:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
ChatGPT says that Nabongo visited Kosovo in 2018 and that it is mentioned on her Instagram account. It would be interesting if someone could find a link.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 20:01, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you google her last name and Kosovo it comes up, however I would hesitate to use ChatGPT as a source. LegalSmeagolian (talk) LegalSmeagolian (talk) 12:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, we can't use ChatGPT as a source. K.N, why do you think it's interesting? Valereee (talk) 12:48, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was mentioned on this page that Nabongo doesn't mention Kosovo. I double checked and it isn't in the book, even though Kosovo was supposedly recognized by the UN in 2008. It is pairs with the "entire world" question below. I'm curious as to why Kosovo wouldn't have been on Nabongo's list (in the book) if she was using the UN as a metric. Nabongo said she was using a travel app to mark off counties.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 05:24, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see. Well, that's getting into original research...we don't sleuth, we wait for someone else to do it and discuss it. If anyone discusses the fact Nabongo didn't mention Kosovo in her book, we could possibly mention it. Valereee (talk) 12:13, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@LegalSmeagolian Strange, if I google it, I don't get any results of Nabongo in Kosovo. Link?--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 05:26, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.instagram.com/p/9y5lxBDW5F/?hl=en and she mentions visiting the "territory" here https://thecatchmeifyoucan.com/2018/03/journey-countries-world.html. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 13:51, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That instagram post isn't from Nabongo, is it? It is from "@oneikatraveller"--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 13:03, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Probably moot, we wouldn't use an insta to support anything but the most non-controversial claims, and considering the discussion of it here this one is controversial for some reason. Valereee (talk) 14:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never vandalized her page. Please stop making up lies. If I did it you need to provide actual proof. Catchme15 (talk) 13:35, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In my article, "Nabongo notes there is some controversy..." I never said this and I never noted it. There is no source. This should be removed. Catchme15 (talk) 14:19, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source is the Conde Nast piece, in which you're quoted as saying "A good example is Syria. So I got denied a visa to Syria on my Ugandan passport and then they started giving Americans visas. But I also got denied. So I went to Golan Heights. And so there's a bit of controversy about that. " Valereee (talk) 14:28, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, this is the subject Jessica Nabongo. I am here to comment on multiple false changes to my account. Firstly, I have visited Syria. The United Nations, which is the list which I used for determining, what is a country, considers Golan Heights to be part of Syria. Further, I published a book with National Geographic who fact checked everything. Catchme15 (talk) 13:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note to admins wandering through[edit]

The primary source of content dispute here seems to be among fans of the article subject vs. those of Woni Spotts. Both women claim a 'first to do' title, both seem to have engaged in UPE. Valereee (talk) 13:00, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

removal of content from the lead[edit]

Hey, @BubbaJoe123456, that's a pretty big removal from the lead without an edit summary other than "copy edits". Let's discuss? Valereee (talk) 18:23, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure - first off, apologies, that wasn't a sufficient edit summary. With that said, since we cite the source for Spotts's claim in the lede, not clear why we need to state the author of the journal article in the lede, rather than just providing a citation to the source. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 21:07, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, BubbaJoe, no problem -- the reason I mentioned the author in the lede was because she's the one saying there's a consensus, and it's a point of major contention, and I didn't like to say that in Wikivoice without indicating who said it. I feel like this article, which has had a tone of disruption over this very point -- to the point it's had to be semi'd -- probably needs that. Valereee (talk) 22:16, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The over weighing factor why I reverted was because the citations were switched out. Otherwise, I would have given you the benefit of the doubt BubbaJoe.--K.Nevelsteen (talk) 05:11, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looking again, the cite switch was my screwup, good catch. I missed that the CNN link includes mention of Spotts. What I had intended to do was trim the "Tori Omega Arthur, writing in the journal Social Media + Society, says that research indicates that Spotts was the first Black woman to complete visits to all countries.[4] part from the lede (since it appears below), but leave in the (cited) statement that "a claim that is disputed by another African-American woman, Woni Spotts, who claimed to have done so in 2018."
Thoughts on this? BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 15:21, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think we could shorten it, but I'm not following your suggestion. Let me go see how I can trim, then you can take a look? Valereee (talk) 15:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I trimmed to what I think is essential, LMK what you think? Valereee (talk) 15:31, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Valereee, thanks for the edits, made the edit I had originally intended to make, take a look, tell me what you think. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 15:39, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I don't really think it's enough to prevent the ongoing disruption we've been seeing here. I guess I'm willing to give it a chance, but honestly the first time someone comes in and starts disrupting again, I think it should go back. Have you taken a look at the past two years' history? This exact point is the subject of an ongoing and wide-ranging war in the Black Travel Movement. IMO we need a clearly-worded rationale in the lead. Valereee (talk) 15:45, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, one further edit...brb. Valereee (talk) 15:46, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, added a bit, see what you think. Valereee (talk) 15:48, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to me that, in the absence of a clear consensus among RS that one claim or the other is correct, it would be best for both articles to just say "X claims to have been the first; this claim is disputed by Y", rather than saying (in Wikivoice) that Spotts's claim "has been confirmed" based on a single journal article, which itself sources the claim to historyofblacktravel.com. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 16:08, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was exactly because I didn't want to put it in Wikivoice that I worded it that way originally: Arthur said it. And that's in an academic journal. And have you looked at the history over the past two years? Have you read this talk? This is an article that has experienced significant ongoing disruption over this very point. Valereee (talk) 16:13, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I get that, but the way it's currently phrased comes across as endorsing Spotts's claim in wikivoice. Just leaving it as "In 2019 Nabongo claimed to be the first Black woman of African descent to have documented visits to every country in the world, a claim that is disputed by another African-American woman, Woni Spotts, who claimed to have done so in 2018." would seem to me to be the best summary of what the RS say. With that said, I'm going to step away here, as I don't want to roil an already-simmering pot. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 17:26, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IMO the current WP:LEAD-writing is too detailed, I'd make it "In 2019 Nabongo claimed to be the first Black woman of African descent to have documented visits to every country in the world, though this is disputed."
Btw, why "Black woman of African descent", what other kinds of Black women are there? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:28, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently it's a discussion in Black sociological circles. I don't know much about it.
Well, that's I believe the third person who has expressed that opinion, so I give. :D Valereee (talk) 12:22, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Valereee, something African_Americans#Terminology_dispute related, perhaps? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:39, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, ah, I think you've got it! Valereee (talk) 17:42, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

protection[edit]

Is there a higher level of protection? I don't think this page will stabilize. Universalsunset (talk) 18:57, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are multiple, but we don't apply them proactively. If we see destabilization, we can request an increase. The edit referenced above isn't evidence of destabilization, it's just a normal edit that someone else happened to disagree with. Which is why we ping the OP to talk. Valereee (talk) 19:23, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Universalsunset (talk) 19:57, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]


COI editor[edit]

This page has been substantially changed numerous times over the years. The substance of the page has been reduced to just make it about controversy. The longer substantive parts of my work have been deleted by people with unsubstantiated claims. I would appreciate if the article can stick to factual claims that have been published by credible sources. My entire book was fact checked by National Geographic and thus is an excellent source, not to mention numerous mainstream outlets. This is an article about Jessica Nabongo and the information contained within should focus on that. Catchme15 (talk) 14:22, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Catchme15, and welcome. I'm happy to discuss with you. Valereee (talk) 14:30, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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