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Jogendera Nath Bhattacharya's Preface to the book Hindu Castes and Sects: An Exposition of the Origin of the Hindu Caste and the bearing of the sects towards each other and towards other religions Systems

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Intothefire (talk) 17:41, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for Hindu Castes and Sects

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A careful reading of this book is revealing ,......a Hindu Pandit - a scholar of Hindu Scripture ,.......ostensibly credited with writing an authoritative book on Hindu castes......profoundly relies ( although self admittedly) on content from (a) Evangelical Christian missionary's (b) British colonial officials and (c) here-say on sources he self admittedly will not reveal , to fill his book . The book is majorly bereft of Hindu Scriptural sources . And when they appear , a jumble of source and his own opinion . Other places he showers abuse on various sections and sects - his opinion not scriptural sourcing . Intothefire (talk) 19:19, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of content from talk page

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Sitush Do not delete contributions of other editors from talk pages as you have done here and on other talk page as well Intothefire (talk) 16:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I also think the text you added above is out of place here, because that is not what article Talk pages are for - they are for discussing the actual article and how to improve it only, and the material you added does not appear to do that -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Deletion of content from the article

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Sitush please do not delete cited content from articles without discussion as you have done again ,
Revision of , as you did here on 27 November 2011 providing reasons for one but actually also simultaneously deleting off cited content from two books entirely different author and book In the edit summary you say Reverted good faith edits by Intothefire (talk): This is far too long a quote: paraphrase might be ok, but I am not even convinced that it is relevant" .

  • You supposedly delete off content from Jogenderanaths book with this content but in reality delete off another separate content as well viz
  • Next instead of attempting to discuss and paraphrase the " long quote from Baijnaths own book " , through consensus on the talk page , you simply delete it off -but I am not even convinced that it is relevant you state .

Jogendernath is discussed here in the context of the very same book , out of which I quoted him attributing his sources and you delete it off saying its not relevant , if your comment then about the relevance of the quote is not false what is it ?

How civil is that to another editors contribution , or building consensus , or in line with Wikipedia policies .

In the same context you say on your page User talk:Sitush#Deletion of my comments from talk page I know that Bhattacharya is not necessarily liked by Khatris - one of your pet subject areas - but that is no reason to rant on a talk page. You may like to explain this cryptic comment on a community , and weather this is your opinion or that of an expert , in the overall context of this discussion .

You yourself introduced this citation to jogendranath on the Khatri page see [Citation no 8 on the Khatri article cites this page has also been provided by you] ….very well that s fair enough but then your misleading deletions on this page coupled with broad brushing comments on Khatris is all a very long distance from good faith . Intothefire (talk) 03:48, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Boing! said Zebedee , considering your note above , would appreciate to see your response .Intothefire (talk) 04:00, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've fixed your indents again. That is the last time. Repeat that problematic behaviour and you get no response from me. I have explained in detail why the Khatri comment and the lengthy quote are unsuitable, and I do not intend to explain it in detail again. The info is littered all over your own talk page and has been referred to here. Basically, undue weight, neutrality, abuse of sourcing, copyvio. As for your claim that I introduced whatever it is to Khatri, well, that is a misrepresentation of what I did. Nor is it even relevant, given that other stuff exists. - Sitush (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My response? Intothefire, you need to stop accusing people of bad faith. As for the actual dispute, it seems you added material, in the form of a very long quote, and Sitush reverted your good faith addition (See the way he even says "good faith" in the edit summary, but you accuse him of bad faith in return?), so now you need to discuss it and get a consensus supporting you before you can put it back again. And while I have no opinion to offer on the relevance of the content itself, it is generally against Wikipedia's style guidelines to create articles that disproportionately consist of quotations - in this case, your quotation was around two thirds of the entire article as you left it. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and please try to standardize your indenting to just one extra ":" per comment - indenting your replies halfway across the page makes discussions much harder to follow -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:36, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Boing! said Zebedee - your response is simply unbelievable , have you read my post carefully ? Intothefire (talk) 18:08, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The huge quote could have been paraphrased to something like: "In Hindu Castes and Sects, Bhattacharya noted his 'obligation to Risley, Wilson and Sherring, and to M4 !' rsima- yangar's Report of the last Census of Mj.'" The rest of the quote was simply not relevant, at least as far as I can see. The problems with even paraphrasing are that:
  1. You copy/pasted that text and it shows in the garbled name beginning "M4". I took a look at the linked source & could make no sense of it there, either. That makes it a poor contribution.
  2. It is perfectly normal practice for authors to acknowledge sources etc. It does not mean that they were influenced by them in any way. Indeed, nowadays such authors are often at pains to add "... but any mistakes are mine" & similar stuff. I read what I could of the cited source & simply could not see that the point was significant.
Regarding the other bit that I removed - and again I would stress that I have already told you this (ie: it was not sneaky in the way that you infer) - you quite clearly used a snippet view of the book. I looked it up myself and got the same phrases, which are scattered across three different pages. You concatenated three statements, for none of which you could possibly have had sufficient context. You do not know what preceded or followed each of those three statements & as such they need to be treated as "throwaway lines". Furthermore, unless you can find some sort of pattern then the stuff about Khatri is simply undue weight. His books were not about the Khatris specifically, and so emphasising one community at the expense of others makes a mockery of things. Also, the guidelines say that any criticism should usually be worked into the article and not just lumped together in one place, which is effectively what you did. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you have some sort of interest in Khatris and, in particular, the Khokhars who form a part of the Khatri community: that is fine, as long as you do not fall into the trap of POV-pushing etc. You need to consider the wider picture, both in terms of what you read (context) and what you write (neutrality & weight). - Sitush (talk) 18:10, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Intothefire, you asked for my opinion and I gave it, and I can do more than that - and your rather drama-mongering description of it as "unbelievable" is really not conducive to collegial dialogue. If you don't want my opinion, don't ask for it. Or if you just want to deride it when I give it, all that will achieve is my ignoring your requests -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ .The Khatris, a socio-cultural study Baij Nath Puri 155
  2. ^ The Khatris, a socio-cultural study Baij Nath Puri page 155 M.N. Publishers and Distributors, 1988
  3. ^ The Khatris, a socio-cultural study Baij Nath Puri 3 M.N. Publishers and Distributors, 1988