Talk:John Conroy

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John Conroy has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 21, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

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Biography assessment rating comment[edit]

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 11:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Query on wording[edit]

Haemophilia is carried in the female line, except in the rare case where a male sufferer lives long enough to beget daughters, all of whom would then be carriers.

Why is it a rare thing for a male person to live long enough to beget daughters? I'm sure that's not what it means to say, but I can't work out the intended meaning. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 03:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is referring to the low life expectancy of those with Haemophilia (i.e. men dying young will not be able to father sons or daughters). I'm currently preparing an article expansion, so I'll look into it further when I eventually come to that section of the article. Cheers, Ruby 2010/2013 04:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I ended up deleting the sentence, as I don't think it added anything to the article (and didn't appear in any of my sources). Ruby 2010/2013 03:11, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Conroy/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BrianDeeG (talk · contribs) 19:19, 16 May 2012 (UTC) I intend to review this article but please note I am new to the process. --Brian (talk) 19:19, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, thank you for reviewing. I would happy to answer any questions about the article or the review process, either here or on my talk page. Also, this article on the Good article criteria could be helpful. Thanks, Ruby 2010/2013 02:48, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Ruby. --Brian (talk) 07:33, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Quickfail" criteria[edit]

I decided to check these first although an initial scan of the article strongly suggests that it is well-written and has been subject to care with no obvious problems:

Verifiability – has extensive bibliography and use of inline citations
Neutrality – definitely complies with NPOV
Cleanup banners and tags – none
Edit wars – none
Current event – n/a
Paraphrasing or copyright – nothing; quotations are used correctly with citations and seem to be relevant

Therefore, the article passes this preliminary stage and I will commence a detailed review based on the main GAC. --Brian (talk) 07:33, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Questions and comments[edit]

1. A general comment has to be the overuse of commas, especially preceding "and". The article should comply with English as used in GB and this use of commas is not practiced here. Comma usage has been addressed in review copyediting. Another point is overuse of "however".

I personally favor the serial comma, but removed them in compliance with British spelling. Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2. Any information in sources about why he chose a military career (still only 16) given that his father was in law? Why did he not go to uni?

There isn't a whole lot about his early life. I added everything I could find. Maybe because he was one of five sons, he saw a military career as the easiest route? Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

3. "The Duchess prevented her daughter from attending William's coronation out of a disagreement of precedence". Need an explanation of "out of a disagreement of precedence". Can another term be substituted?

I added a note about this but left the sentence unchanged ("disagreement of precedence" seemed like the shortest way to explain). Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

4. "As the years grew closer to Victoria's succession, William enjoyed bragging of his good health;^{[citation needed]} aware that a regency was becoming unlikely, Conroy and the Duchess began promoting the view of Victoria as a "weak-minded, frivolous, and foolish" girl in need of guidance.^{[citation needed]} I don't think William's boast is relevant and in any case needs a direct citation. I would remove that clause. A citation is needed re the quotation about Victoria. The sentence needs revision.

I removed the "good health" sentence and added a citation (note that everything in the article is cited - the proper citation was in the next sentence). Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

5. "While increasing their bullying of the princess, they at the same time implied that Victoria desired a regency even if she succeeded later than her majority at eighteen". The phrase "they at the same time" is poor English and this sentence needs to be revised to improve its construction.

I deleted the phrase. Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

6. "The Duchess and Conroy unsuccessfully tried to exploit her weakened state into signing a document appointing him personal secretary upon her ascension as queen". The sentence does not convey clear meaning, especially "tried to exploit her weakened state into signing a document". Construction needs to be revised.

I split the sentence into two, which hopefully makes it easier to read. I'm unsure how the meaning was unclear though. Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

7. "Conroy was the subject of numerous discussions Victoria had with Stockmar on the first day of her reign". A citation is needed as this information is isolated from the foregoing and following sentences.

Done. Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

8. "This scandal, in tandem with the Bedchamber Crisis, hurt Victoria in the public image". The latter part of the sentence ("hurt Victoria in the public image") needs to be rephrased. Something along the lines of "damaged Victoria's reputation".

Done. Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

These questions arise from an initial in-depth read of the article, mainly designed to check criterion 1 that it is well-written. I've made numerous small changes as copyedits while the proposed changes above may depend on source content. If you can address each of these points as the next stage, I'll be happy to continue with the review and provide comments for each of the criteria. --Brian (talk) 11:06, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review and copy edit. I will get working at these suggestions soon (unfortunately cannot right now, as I am about to drive five hours to visit family). Ruby 2010/2013 16:18, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, Ruby. Have a safe journey and a good weekend. --Brian (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Replied to all your comments. Thanks, Ruby 2010/2013 18:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In-depth review criteria[edit]

1. Well-written:

(a) good prose with correct spelling and grammar – very well-written with the result that the article is educational and an interesting read

(b) complies with MOS guidelines for:

lead sections – yes

layout – yes

words to watch – no problem

fiction – n/a

list incorporation – n/a

2. Factually accurate and verifiable:

(a) notes and references sections – well laid out with several sources listed

(b) inline citations – extensive use

(c) no original research – none that I can see: everything verified

3. Broad in its coverage:

(a) addresses main aspects of topic – I have some knowledge of the subject having read the A. N. Wilson book and through an interest in this period of British history and I am certain that the coverage is ample

(b) stays focused on topic without unnecessary detail – yes; summary style adopted

4. Neutrality – good; objective approach

5. Stability – no problems

6. Images are relevant and respect copyright – they do; and they add a lot of value to the article

Summary[edit]

The questions I raised earlier were geared more towards making it into a very good article as one or two phrases were a little ambiguous. This is an excellent piece of work and I'm pleased to raise it to GA status. --Brian (talk) 18:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to review! Ruby 2010/2013 19:09, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

native language?[edit]

"Conroy's native language was of particular value to the Duchess because she had not yet acquired fluency in English." Conroy was born in a Welsh-speaking area, so his 'native language' might be presumed to be Welsh. Presumably he was brought up speaking English, however, but in what way was this of 'value' to the Duchess who did not? I have deleted this unexplained and badly expressed gibberish. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 08:23, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

porphyria[edit]

the claim that George III had porphyria has been discredited according to a recent article in BBC History magazine, so the Rappaport 2003 book is outdated in this respect. The part about it in the article should be updated 188.30.188.30 (talk) 08:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]