Talk:John Dunn (pipemaker)

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Untitled

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: article moved to John Dunn (pipemaker). fish&karate 14:20, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

John Dunn (bagpipe maker) → John Dunn (pipemaker) – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:40, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

this is overprecise - the conventional name for a maker of bagpipes is a pipemaker. This is consistent with other Wikipedia pages such as Colin Ross (pipemaker). There is currently a redirect from John Dunn (pipemaker) to John Dunn (bagpipe maker), so I cannot move the page myself.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This title 'John Dunn (bagpipe maker)' is inconsistent with other pages describing makers of bagpipes, such as Robert Reid (pipemaker), or Colin Ross (pipemaker). 'Pipemaker' is the normal term for a maker of bagpipes.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 23:11, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
To the many who are not concerned much with bagpipes, "pipemaker" could be a man who makes other sorts of woodwind musical instruments or smoking pipes or water pipes or exhaust pipes or any other sort of pipe. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is no serious risk of confusion with the change - this might arise if another John Dunn made a different sort of pipe, but not otherwise.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 23:08, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. If this is the common practice, then that's fine with me. Similar to how we name people Joe Bloggs (footballer) even though footballer is technically ambiguous. Jenks24 (talk) 11:07, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Anthony Appleyard; "pipemaker" can be the maker of any sort of pipes, and the purpose of disambiguators is to be clear to any reader what is meant. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:00, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is no realistic fear of confusion here - the article itself makes clear what sort of pipes Dunn made, and the word 'pipemaker' is the normal word for a maker of bagpipes, just as 'piper' is the word for one who plays them. Disambiguators are useful for resolving real, not imagined ambiguities - the John Dunn disambiguation page does this well.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 20:26, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have added to the disambiguation page, clarifying what sort of pipes he made, to prevent risk of confusion.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 13:41, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, but this does not address one major function of disambiguation: when someone types J-o-h-n D-u-n-... into the search box, he should be able to pick out the article he wants out of the choices; that's precision. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:34, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - How will someone who types that in and sees "John Dunn (pipemaker)" as an option think 'Oh, well I was looking for the bagpipe maker, whereas this pipemaker is obviously not the person I'm looking for'? Jenks24 (talk) 14:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Because pipemaker in this sense is an intensely local word, which most other anglophones will not understand. If bagpipe maker is so repellent, how about (maker of bagpipes)? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - I'm from Australia and I've never played a bagpipe in my life, but I still understood what "pipemaker" meant. It is not that bagpipe maker is "repllant", but rather that other bagpipe makers are disambiguated with "(pipemaker)" and I see no reason why John Dunn should buck that trend (and, after all, consistency is one of the key criteria at WP:AT). Jenks24 (talk) 07:48, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If anyone writes a page about some John Dunn a (smoking) pipe maker, clarification will be needed. Until then, using the word 'pipemaker' - used for makers of Uilleann pipes, Highland pipes, Northumbrian smallpipes and other bagpipes - is unambiguous and safe. The word is local only to the extent that bagpipes are - that is, not very.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 20:32, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
the conventional name for a maker of bagpipes is a pipemaker: likely among Scots, who are the people most concerned with bagpipes. I am English, and the first thing that "pipemaker" suggests to me is plumbing. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:12, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a pipemaker is someone who makes flutes, not bagpipes. 70.49.126.190 (talk) 03:43, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I see that http://www.topwind.com/magazin/magaf.htm, a website for flute makers, uses 'flute-maker' not 'pipemaker' to refer to them.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 15:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have never come across the sense maker of flutes for pipemaker - this sense is certainly rare, and may be apparent only to 70.49.126.190, whoever that is. John Gibbons 3 (talk) 22:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Most people above seem to understand that Dunn made bagpipes. I see Anthony Appleyard didn't even notice John Dunn was English. Has he read the article?John Gibbons 3 (talk) 22:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The title 'John Dunn (pipemaker)' would conform to the usage elsewhere on Wikipedia, is sufficiently unambiguous to prevent confusion, and conforms to the standard usage for people who make bagpipes. No confusion is plausibly likely. Titles should be pointers to the article, rather than abstracts of it.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 15:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I note that nobody apart from myself has added to this discussion in the last week. Can a neutral administrator close the discussion, one way or the other, please?John Gibbons 3 (talk) 21:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support move. If the conventional term for a person who makes bagpipe is "pipemaker", we should use that as the disambiguator unless it creates confusion with another John Dunn who also makes pipes (bagpipes or otherwise). Looking at the disambiguation page, it doesn't seem that would be the case here. Jafeluv (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.